A blog dedicated to the New York Mets with some other baseball thrown in.

Wednesday, January 24, 2007

The Great Willie Debate

I have to tell you that in such a boring off-season, this Willie debate has been one of my favorites. We all know that Willie wanted to be paid....and by paid I mean $2 million per season. For reference, let's look at the $2 million dollar managers.

Tony LaRussa has been a manager since the seventies and has won the World Series twice and been in it five times. He has finished in first place four out of the last five years and six out of the last eleven years while making the playoffs six out of the last seven years. He won AL Manager of the Year in 1983, 1988, and 1992 and the NL Manager of the Year in 2002. He is also credited for revolutionizing the game by creating the modern day closer.

Lou Pinella is widely regarded as on of the games better managers. Though he only has one World Series win, he has a .537 winning percentage over 2454 games when you disregard an ill-advised stop in Tampa Bay that dragged down his overall winning percentage. He won AL manager of the year in 1995 and 2001.

Joe Torre has won a billion World Series and made the playoffs a trillion times. Though not a strategic genius, he is credited as being the glue that held a group of gigantic egos in check. Torre was AL Manager of the Year in 1996 and 1998.

Bobby Cox has not won a billion World Series like Torre, but he has made the playoffs a quadrillion times in a row, though without much success. He was AL Manager of the Year in 1985 and NL Manager of the Year in 1991, 2004, and 2005.

Mike Scioscia is one of my favorite managers today. Maybe it is his Pillsbury dough boy look. Maybe it is the fact that he is an ex-catcher and I’m of the mind that they are more superior baseball minds than most. Whatever the case is, he has a .537 winning percentage in seven years of managing and has won one World Series and made it to the playoffs three out of those seven years. He was the AL Manager of the Year in 2002.

Jim Leyland is a well respected manager in today’s game. The strange thing about him as that as well respected as he is, there is only one team that he has been with that has a winning percentage under his tenure. That team is the 2006 Detroit Tigers. Out of the fifteen years he has managed a ballclub, he has managed .500 finishes only six times. He has one World Series win in 1997 with the Marlins and has made it there one other time with the 2006 Tigers. In his defense, he has not exactly been at the helm of solidly run franchises being the skipper of the Pirates, Marlins, and Rockies before he took over as the Tigers manager. He was the NL Manager of the year in 1990 and 1992 and the 2006 AL Manager of the Year.

Now Willie....

Willie Randolph has coached for two entire seasons and had winning seasons in both of them. He has made it to the playoffs one time and has never won a Manager of the Year award, which is not surprising since he still has some learning to do.

Under his new deal, his salary this year will be doubled to $1.4 million. He will get $2 million next year and $2.25 million in 2009, and the Mets have a $2.5 million option for 2010.

I'm not going to make a big deal out of this because frankly it's not. The Mets bring back their affable manager who is still learning on the job and will pay him like he's one of the games elite after '07 despite him only managing for two seasons. I just love how the man signed a three year contract and many had their panties all bundled up when the Mets somehow were being the villains by simply honoring a pact that Willie agreed to. Now, I understand why you make good on certain situations like when the Mets inked Reyes and Wright early because if you do not, you greatly increase your chance of losing them and sometimes create ill will. However, there is simply no comparison between Willie and the wonder kids on the left side of the infield in terms of their relative importance to this teams future.

Overall, I like Willie, but I just think the Mets needed more time to really gauge him. His biggest asset is a very important one in that his players like him. What I always found ridiculous is the notion that teams respect their managers less when their managers are not getting 'paid'. Somehow I do think that Willie wouldn't be respect if he wasn't paid LaRussa money. I will say he was better than he was in his first season, but his team also had a bullpen that was effective one through seven and had a lineup that he basically left out there. When it came to fancified moves, Willie still showed that he was a bit lacking. That's irrelevant now because he is here for three more years. Even if the Mets fail to make the playoffs over the next three years, which is highly unlikely, Willie will get paid like he has been successful for a decade.

Can someone please sponsor Wilie's page before I do something in the same vain as this one?

* * *

  • Chats...chats...and more chats. Jim Callis is a chat master and that's all I have to say about that.

    Mike (Swellville, NJ): Is Pelfrey?s lack of a secondary stuff overblown a bit? My eyes told me no when watching him, but the word on the street is that his slider is sharper than his curve and his change up continues to show promise. Any chance he can be what Verlander was the Tigers last year to the Mets this season?

    SportsNation Jim Callis: Yes, it is overblown a bit. We've heard the same, that he's making progress with the slider. A Verlander year is in the realm of possibility.

    That was a such a good question that I'm at a loss for words.

    Paul (San Francisco): Better at prime: Clemens or Pedro?

    SportsNation Jim Callis: Pedro.

    If you ever get bored, just go back and look at Pedro's 1997 through 2002 run and specifically his 1997 through 2000 years. A lot of players need to win 300 to get in and it really doesn't matter if Pedro pitches again and finishes with 206 wins. He was as dominant as any pitcher in the history of the game over that span and cemented his place in history already. Boston fans were lucky to be able to see those seasons first hand.

  • Fining the 18-year old kid is pretty silly. Placing a ban that is impossible to enforce without facial recognition systems in place is even sillier.

    Despite his punishment, Leli said he's still a Mets fan, according to The Times. He said he just wanted to meet Piazza.

    "He's always been my hero, and I just wanted to meet him," Leli said, according to The Times.

    Leli also remained confident in his press-pass making ability. He examined a reporter's credentials in court Tuesday and according to The Times said: "Not bad, but mine was better."

  • Comment of the day...

    Itsmetsforme said...

    i might burn out a few pen arms, but I could coach this team. i've got the skillsets.

    Mex would be my bench guy. No smoking in the dugout, but he can leave in the 7th if he's got somewhere to be. Players ask me for guidance I say, you're making plenty of cash, figure it out. Reyes looks at me from first, I just point to second base. I bring back the hidden ball trick. My starting pitchers go 9 or go home. I take Beltran's tennis ball machine away--i don't want him watching anymore pitches go by. No way I do the job for less than 1.5 mil though. But then I was never a Yankme.

    Of course i could manage the mets but thanks to Bud F*&%^$ Selig i wont be able to watch them on cable.
    Suck this, MLB.

    10:25 PM

    Suck this indeed. For the record, I'm completely opinionless on this Direct TV deal. Not sure why, but I am.

  • You have to respect Delgado's decision, but it's silly to broach the topic so far in advance. Also, I'm fine with Carlos taking the time he needs, but he better hope the Mets do not go 0-3 to start the season and miss the playoffs by one game.


    Anonymous jake said...

    affable = choice word selection. the funny thing is how willie can't help being affable although he tries to project a tough guy persona.

    7:15 AM

    Anonymous Anonymous said...

    The only bad things about the Willie signing is that Micheal Kay will now take credit for instigating the Mets to sign him to some more money.

    The past few days he's been bitching how the Mets are cheap and it's disgracful at how he's being under paid, he should be paid more because the Mets HAVE TO compete with the Yankees (Torre's salary vs. Willie's) Hey Asshole, he's been a manager for 2 YEARS and the season hasnt even started yet!! Let the MEts and Willie make up their mind before you run your fat fuckin' mouth off!


    - Nokes

    8:10 AM

    Anonymous sidd finch said...

    Wow, he'll be in the top 5 of managers in terms of pay after this season, plus he got his pay doubled this year over what he would have gotten. Now the media can shut the hell up. I think this contract gives us all an idea of what Omar will want when it's time for him to be extended.

    I don't think he's worth that, but hey, he's only managed 2 years, maybe he is worth it.

    8:44 AM

    Anonymous sidd finch said...

    Suck this indeed. For the record, I'm completely opinionless on this Direct TV deal. Not sure why, but I am.

    I'm sure all of you are tired of hearing me whine about being blacked out of Mets games, and not being able to get SNY, but MLB has shot itself in the foot again. Try living in Meriden, New Britain, or Hartford areas and seeing the Mets. Now I have to buy Direct TV to see them, because MLB.TV blacks me out, while my cable system doesn't offer SNY at any price.

    8:58 AM

    Blogger mr. met said...

    I think people generally see him as a nice guy. It’s crazy how people think it was his preordained right to get paid handsomely from the start. The guy really hasn’t earned or proved anything. It’s small potatoes when you look at the big picture, but it is kind of about principle for me in this case. It sure doesn’t help that I think he has big holes in his managerial game and I would prefer we have a manager that actually adds wins. Personally I think it is hard for Willie to do damage. He won’t hurt your team and will go with his gut more than reason, but he certainly will not ring a few extra wins out of this team, which is something I expect from a highly paid manager. Like I’ve said before, Willie is eminently replaceable and might not be the 1st or 2nd best manager in this organization. Should he be fired? That’s not what I’m saying. It’s impossible to fire him now, but it just boils down to me being stubborn and not getting all this blind faith people have in Willie and how the majority has decided that Willie is the end all be all of managers.

    The guy is still learning and has a ways to go. I’m just not following what the big to do with giving him a raise was. Most guys have to work for a looooong time to get this type of pay increase and have to do things like you know…win championship or continuously make the playoffs.

    The only bad things about the Willie signing is that Micheal Kay will now take credit for instigating the Mets to sign him to some more money.

    As silly as it sounds, I think the Mets did succumb to public pressure. I think the media did pressure the Mets into a deal that Omar clearly didn’t want to give since the start. Omar is one of the most decisive and quick striking GMs out there. The fact that he let something like this linger tells me he was hesitant to make the move. He ultimately cracked, but Willie will be one of the top four or five paid managers in ’09 and that blows my mind. Maybe he comes into his own and will deserve it, but there are a lot of guys that come into this league and manage deftly from the start.

    Sidd…I agree…he might be worth it, but you play players for what they might be…not managers. Managers should be reasonably skillful from the start. If Willie is getting $2 million…Omar should break the bank for sure. Does he give himself a raise?

    Now I have to buy Direct TV to see them,

    But isn’t DirectTV a viable option? I might switch to DirectTV because my cable operator (cablevision) has the worst HDTV lineup ever. Am I pissed? Yeah, but I’ll do it if I get motivated enough. Or I’ll look into FIOS, which is Verizon’s TV offering. The only real gripe that I think could occur is where DirectTV is not available at all. That would be the complaint, but if you can receive DirectTV, you still have options.

    9:52 AM

    Anonymous Danny said...

    I do think Willie does a great job of dealing with the players. There are great on-field guys like Showalter (and be honest, our beloved Bobby V) that may be awesome taskmasters, but they also alienate their players and don't get the most out of them, even if they are putting them in the best place to succeed. It's the silly human element to this game. Having said that, Camera Carter could easily replace Willie, Oberkfell probably easily could, etc... Willie is getting handsomely overpaid, but I am not losing any sleep over it. AT least the distraction is gone.

    The Swellville, NJ from the Callis chat should have given it away! I wsa following the chat yesterday. You are a pro at getting your questions picked my man.

    Mike, your link to Charlie Manuel on baseball-reference.com has one too many L's for baseball, so the link is bad. Take out an L and you will be golden. I want to make sure this happens, because it is a wonderful, wonderful thing that you have done there. And more should share in its swelliciousness.

    10:13 AM

    Blogger mr. met said...

    Danny…I’ll second that. I think there are guys out there…maybe in the Met organization…that could do what Willie does and be a better tactician. That being said, it is a minor deal until a managerial gaffe in the playoffs. I think a lot of us were too happy with last season to really critique the job he did in the playoffs, which was not all that good. He made some big mistakes, but we gave him a pass and he got a raise. We’ll see next time around, but I’m tired of Willie and his guy. Gut sometimes is good when you just have a feeling, but I prefer some more calculated decisions from him in ’07.

    I’ve been getting one asked per session when I submit them. I think we all knew the answer to that one, but I figured it would get answered. I like my other ones better, but what can you do.

    I’ll fix the link tonight, but it is golden. GOLDEN!

    10:32 AM

    Anonymous Anonymous said...

    I like the deal, especially since they tore up the 2007 contract. A lame-duck manager is never a good thing, but tacking on three years extra would mean 4 years of guaranteed money which is too much.

    I think managing in New York is harder than managing elsewhere, so that has to be taken into account. I don't know how to quantify that part, but I do think just the fact that Willie has to deal with ten times the amount of media pressure as LaRussa needs to be factored into the salary. The job description of a New York manager is just different than Seattle.

    Bobby Valentine is my favorite manager of all time, but you have to give credit to Randolph for commanding the respect of his players the way he does. Every manager in baseball can be second guessed tactically, but R-E-S-P-E-C-T of the clubhouse may be the single most important part of the gig.

    That's why Torre deserves his salary. Besides the success of his teams on the filed, he also has dealt with his boss very well, with the media exceedingly well, and he's kept his clubhouse together throughout his tenure. When he got sick and Don Zimmer took over, who himself had quite a managerial resume, the team almost fell apart. Torre comes back and all is well in Junkeeland. Plus Torre is an ex-Met so he gets points there. Even if he does pick his nose too much.

    Anyway, my point is that the manager's job is much more than being a "manager," and Willie got a well-deserved contract that works for both sides.

    10:45 AM

    Blogger mr. met said...

    but I do think just the fact that Willie has to deal with ten times the amount of media pressure as LaRussa needs to be factored into the salary.

    I agree it’s harder, but does that mean everyone deserves more money to play in NY? Should LoDuca get a raise because he has to answer more questions? Should Delgado? I choose those two because they are always there taking questions and LoDuca specifically has an expiring contract after ’07. I’m not saying Willie doesn’t have to deal with really annoying media, but he didn’t have to take the job. NY is a harder place to play, coach, etc. The benefit he receives (as does everyone else) is the financial wherewithal of his team to go out and get those players he needs to make him look good. Torre came to NY and the Yankees deep pockets made him a legend. Willie came to the Mets at the perfect time and is going to have a sterling record over the next decade (including his first two years). I think Willie getting paid over a million a year was enough until he truly proved he was worth the money was the way to go.

    Willie has their respect, which is the only reason he got this deal. That is obviously a large thing and I do not want to take anything away from that, but he is not the first nor the last to have his players respect, but there are guys who can do both. Carter might be able to do both. He’s a Hall of Famer and won in ’86 with this team. He should garner some pretty good respect while having a grasp on how the game should be managed and controlled. I’m just saying for top level cash I want a manager who is an all around stud. Not a guy that I think could legitimately cost the Mets some close games in the playoffs. Like I said, he is not one of the managers who add a few wins. He subtracted quite a few in his first season and wasn’t stellar in his 2nd.

    RE: Torre…the Mets and Yankees are a bit different. Torre has to deal with a team full of Superstars and a owner who is flat out nuts. The Mets are a far, far, far, far cry from that. Franco could be a player manager for this team and they would get to the same place and this is a very cohesive group. That is something that is there regardless of Randolph and that is the testament to the guys that Omar brought in and the players they developed. Not exactly an even comparison.

    What’s wrong with a bit of nose picking?

    11:22 AM

    Anonymous benny said...

    Willie got a hell of a deal. I like Willie alot more now in 2007 than I did in 2005. I just hope his next trip the playoffs he's a little smarter with the bullpen usage. GUillermo Mota although lights out was involved in too many games.
    I can't wait for Wally MAthews' article tomorrow, bitchin' about giving him too much money.

    I think fining that kid is appropriate, that's just balls to do what he did, haha. BUt if someone does recognize him at all, its jail time for him, which is not very fun.

    THe DIrecTV deal doesn't piss me off to no end, but it does dissapoint. I was gonna get that this season, oh well... whatever. MLB Gameday it is to follow the other games.

    I just realised that the MEts open up the MLB season on ESPN. THey better win that fuckin' game.

    12:11 PM

    Anonymous benny said...

    damn, I wasn't done.
    THey open against the Cardinals on ESPN. ANd not only do I want to see the Mets win. I want to see an offensive SLAUGHTERING of the Cardinals.
    It will be sweet.

    12:13 PM

    Anonymous JohnF said...

    Mike, the Manuel link should be:


    You're missing the 'l' off the end, in addition to the extra 'l' in baseball.

    1:07 PM

    Blogger Itsmetsforme said...

    I cant blame you for being opinionless on the direct tv deal since you have easy access to the lifeblood of games, and i hate to whine, but allow me to build a case for why its a big deal-- it is not only bad for baseball to shaft rabid fans (obvious) but also bad for the blog community. Basically, methinks part of the reason for the increased participation in the blog world can be linked not only to the spread of the internets, but also to the national availability of the games (think of all the "Metsfans in X" sites). Any reduction in availability kills off fan participation. Kill the cable, kill off the fans who can't for many reasons adjust to MLB's new greed scheme. America's past time suffers. The blogs dwindle. The oceans rise. etc.

    My own sickness was the direct result of getting the "Extra innings" package one year--i started off innocently refreshing Metsblog, going into chat rooms(gasp), then starting my own thing, then patronizing fine blogs like this one, etc etc. To use an analogy: I tried a little pot, started smoking crack, then was selling the shit i made in my bathtub in an alley, and finally i was blowing winos for money for drugs.

    From the out of towner perspective, it's just easier to stay plugged in and excited when you can see all the games, hasslefree (yes i am referencing spotty mlb.con) on the greatest invention ever, the television. So i think this decision hurts all of us; all our blogs and discussions will suffer readership, i predict.

    In addition, besides watching a team that is finaly getting it's shit together, I want to continue the habits that i developed with "extra innings":

    1)tuning in late to potential yankmes and br*ves losses for the cheap thrill
    2)watching k*zmir starts and playing pretend
    3)fuming when Mets-Yankers games are unavailable.

    In conclusion, we are the world. Suck me, MLB.

    2:07 PM

    Anonymous DG said...

    Swellville is by the Swellicious River isn't it? I knew it was the veritable metro-man when I saw the question. I think we are obliged as a site to have one person who gets a question answered.

    Willie is, I think, genuinely a nice guy. I have no problem with him getting his money, and he has improved with each year. Still he has an easy team to manage, made up of great personalities. And he's got his dumb Subway gig.

    Anyone bothering with the Aussie Open? I get to watch part of the feature match live each morning. I think that Serena Williams may be the most overweight tennis player ever to get to the finals of a tournament. She's not quite Akebono territory, but she's gonna be enormous after she retires.

    My solution to the DirctTV situation is to stay in Paris.

    2:25 PM

    Blogger mr. met said...

    I cannot see them recognizing him in that see of faces unless he has a gigantic beauty mark encompassing his face. Grow a Keith Hernandez stache and where a hat...BAM! In the stadium without fear of retribution.

    The Mets will get it done. Sweep to start the season. Glavine is going to light them up.

    Itsmetsforme, I would think the opposite is true and people turn to blogs and whatnot for their baseball fix since they cannot watch them on TV.

    You can still listen to the radio feeds no? Not that it is the same and I’m not pretending it is, but the access is there in some form.

    I do see your point though. If I was the one being alienated, I’d be heated as well. But can’t you get those games on the computer still? Most new laptops do have an s-video out and a lot of TVs have a serial port for a monitor. I could hook up my laptop to my TV if I wanted and it would create a reasonable facsimile of the enjoyment I derive from baseball via the real TV signal.

    It’s time to get creative here…

    2:30 PM

    Blogger mr. met said...

    Swellville is by the Swellicious River isn't it?

    Of course. The river is a tad bit polluted, but they are working on that.

    I think we are obliged as a site to have one person who gets a question answered.

    Not only that, but it must be outwardly discernible.

    My solution to the DirctTV situation is to stay in Paris.

    The joke is still on you though! I'd take the DirectTV debacle over Paris any day.

    2:33 PM

    Anonymous Anonymous said...

    Hey folks. I just started up a Mets blog. Check it out if you want:


    2:49 PM

    Anonymous Derr Gee said...

    I'm happy with Mets by MLB.com and Paris. No joke!

    3:23 PM

    Anonymous Anonymous said...

    Mets sign Sele. Minor league deal.


    3:33 PM

    Blogger mr. met said...

    Dg...I kid...I kid. I'm sure it's a wonderful existence, though a far cry from New Jersey.

    Nokes, that's not a bad pickup for minor league deal. I'm definitely OK with that and he put up better numbers than Trachsel last year, though that was not hard to do.

    3:57 PM

    Anonymous sidd finch said...

    I see your point about hooking up my laptop to a TV to see the games, but theres' one problem. I can't get the mets games live on mlb.tv, 'cause I'm in a blackout zone, AND comcast doesn't offer SNY in my area AT ANY PRICE! I don't care if I have to pay extra, I just want to be able to see something else other than the Red Sox and Yankmes.

    Bite Me, MLB.

    Sele was washed up when he signed with the Mariners. He's the Lima Time of this year.

    4:10 PM

    Anonymous Anonymous said...

    Mr. Met, don't forget Gary Carter's own teammates hated him.

    Willie didn't deserve extra money just because he manages in New York, but because he has succeeded in new York and all that comes with it. Something Art Howe couldn't do.

    4:18 PM

    Blogger mr. met said...

    Sidd...I forgot the perils of living in Connecticut. I see your plight. Maybe we can get a direct feed between our houses and I'll transmit the games with implied, oral consent.

    Sele will not see the light of day....I hope. I still think it's a low risk move. Why not? I'd would have preferred Zambrano, but two shoulder injuries is not favorable for his future.

    but because he has succeeded in new York and all that comes with it.

    Two years of work hardly supports that case especially when he's handed a great team. I would have preferred a larger body of work, with more successes, and more steps forward on the Xs and Os aspect of coaching.

    As for Carter, I'm not going to pretend I know much of that situation. He seems like he was garner some instant respect, but I could be 100% off and they could hate him. However, I'm not necessarily just talking about him. For top tier money, you should be a guy that does it all. Willie is just not there yet. It's a matter of principal. How after two seasons he could be coronated as a top level manager with what he's done is mind boggling to me.

    5:06 PM

    Anonymous Anonymous said...

    Read "The Bad Guys won" by Pearlman. It's a great read. Personally I thought the most interesting part was about how Carter was so unpopular, mostly because he wasn't one of the boys, but when all was said and done he was the only guy on the uber-talented squad to reach Cooperstown.

    5:16 PM

    Blogger mr. met said...

    Interesting stuff on Carter...

    This isn't supposed to be a Carter vs. Willie argument.

    I’m not Willie’s biggest supporter and I think everyone knows that. I hope I end up being wrong and he ends up being one of the best manager’s of our time, but typically there shouldn’t be such a ramp up period. Bad tactical managers pretty much stay bad (Howe) and good ones usually remain good (Showalter). I get that it’s tough to be both respected and a tactical genius, but those are the guys who should be better paid.

    Olney had a nice piece toady on how underpaid managers seem. But that’s just the market. The Mets took a step in blowing the market up a bit because Cox and LaRussa will surely use that deal to show their owners they need more cash, but as Olney said, owners could see the managers as eminently replaceable. There are certainly two schools of thought there, but I firmly believe there are plenty of middle tier guys like Tracy, Wedge, Yost, Randolph, etc. that could all do equal jobs. They are essentially interchange and those guys are not hard to find. The market is driven by demand. Simply put, managers aren’t in excessively high demand. You’ll typically always find one. Look at Bud Black, Joe Girardi, Ken Oberkefell, Garcy Carter, Fredi Gonzalez….those are all guys who I think could be very good managers and were all ones who were just hired or will be hired in the next few years.

    It’s really something that cannot be something that is proven since managing is so abstract in terms of how it can be quantified, but that’s why I particularly love this argument. It’s based on building on case to support your point largely devoid of stats…

    In the end, Willie is a middle tier guy that is getting top, top tier cash. Comparatively speaking, he’s getting overpaid when you put him against other managers. In baseball terms, he’s getting underpaid if you want to pin him up against middle relievers, but what manager isn’t? The Mets are making a statement here and it’s the wrong one. You don’t put a kink in the market for someone who probably is not at that level yet because it causes issues for other teams. If they were going to buck the market, they should have disobeyed the Commissioner and signed Pedro Beato over slot. Instead, they tried to please him in an effort to keep signing bonuses in check. In reality, this helps bump up all managers pay as Francona and other guys who have had some success can point to him and say “what has he done? Look what I’ve done!”.

    5:37 PM

    Anonymous Sidd Finch said...

    You've got a deal on the direct feed thing.

    I agree with Mike, I'd like to have a great manager again, and Willie's not it. The Mets have had 2 great managers, Gil Hodges and Davey Johnson, with Bobby V. a neck behind. One good thing about resigning Randolph, it's always good to have a big Willie.

    6:39 PM

    Anonymous Coop said...

    You know what Willie said in his press conference after inking his deal?


    OK had to go there

    Sucks I can't visit you guys at work anymore.

    10:13 PM

    Anonymous Mikey from Brooklyn said...

    My 2 cents on the Willie deal - if Omar had been quick on this Willie would have end up doubling, not quadruple plusing his salary *maybe Omar wants the Wilpons to realize how underpaid he is?). My main thought is that by waiting/negotiating it suggests to the players that maybe Willie is not loved by management, and all the good feeling gets turned into clubhouse divides. Plus, it allowed Willie's people to get the word out - hence the Madden article on Sunday

    I agree Willie is not the best - but I think most of us would agree that Torre is not the smartest either (prior to being sainted by Yankee fans did he even have a winning %?!). A lot of times impressions (and $200 mil) go a long way, and if a player making $10 - 15 mil a year says to management that he doesn't like the manager who's making $1 - 2 mil, who do you think has more clout?

    I'm hoping the Mets win a WS and everyone feels Willie is a genius - and that Omar gest all the cash that he deserves as he truly IS a genius.

    6:43 AM

    Blogger mr. met said...

    Bobby V. was awesome, but the vets didn't like him for some reason and he tended to over manage. Too many double switches & pitching changes, but he could recite the rule book to the umps. They guy was smart as hell.

    Coop, you are missed. The estrogen you added to the discussion was extremely valuable. Now there's a bit too much testosterone. We need you to balance things out.

    and that Omar gest all the cash that he deserves as he truly IS a genius.

    Omar is going to get paid. If he gave Willie that much, Omar should easily double his salary. The Mets cannot afford to lose him and he certainly will be making more than big Willie.

    I think the notion that players respect a $1.4 million manager more than a $700,000 dollar manager is overblown. Howe was making $2.5 and had NO respect. Willie was well respect in his first two years being paid his salary.

    11:02 AM

    Anonymous jake said...

    mike for god's sake get a new post up and please change the topic. preferably to something swell like jose/david pecota comps. thanks.

    8:07 PM

    Anonymous ossycocotaso said...

    i think the best manager ive seen was bobby v. (from 1994 - present)

    like i said before, he took benny agbayani, jay payton and some other guy to world series as his starting outfield

    thats fucking genius

    3:08 AM

    Blogger Itsmetsforme said...

    Hey, vitazxx what is it you really like about the site's design?

    I just don't get spaming blogs. It's like being innundated with repetitive car commercials when im trying to watch sports on tv (yeah Bud, I used to watch tv)--i have never bought a car because I saw it take a steep mountain curve or brake and swerve to avoid a falling rock while I was trying to watch Friends. Everyone in Texas already has a truck.

    How many of us say, hmmm, even though I'm reading about baseball, all those url's are making me horny, and I need to buy some pills off the internet right now!

    Oh, and suck me mlb.

    2:38 PM

    Anonymous More about those dumb links: said...

    Why do people chuck up this shit? I mean what is the point beyond driving Mike (perhaps) to the point of not wanting to bother? And who clicks one of those links or better yet, cut and pastes to visit something called rhenofuckuall? I'm just searching for that angle, that snippet of profit out there that I guess I've been avoiding thinking about, that little extra swill at the end of my till, if you will. I mean, why bother?


    5:47 PM

    Anonymous Da Grumbler said...

    Media clearinghouse with lousy commentary:

    ...it is also interesting to me that Lastings Milledge has been bumped from Pouliot's top 10 this year in favor of the rising outfield prospects Fernando Martinez, and Carlos Gomez, not to say that they don't belong on this list which they obviously do...

    well, maybe because Milledge is no longer eligible for such lists!....

    10:45 AM

    Anonymous MC said...

    Milledge has lost his prospect status

    10:55 AM

    Blogger Itsmetsforme said...

    hi my babies,

    If you're interested I just spent the better part of the last two days gathering analysis and spewing venom about MLB/Directv on my blog. Normally bashful, I wouldnt ask you to visit me, but this is a matter of national security. Baseball is my sole patriotic impulse. I don't like parades. And it's your duty to assure that I get to watch the Mets. I know cause Jose Valentin told me so.

    Also, there is contact info a plenty and some unflattering pictures of Bud Selig if that's your thing, so come over there and lets take it to MLB!

    Or don't visit me and just email the address provided by hotfoot:

    Bob Bowman
    MLB Executive VP in charge of Extra Innings
    E-mail: Bob.Bowman@mlb.com

    spammers suck, dont they.

    3:23 PM

    Anonymous sidd finch said...

    I think the blue and orange in the design is the best part.

    I'm sure those Viagra links are going to help me repair my credit. I'm thinking I can take a couple of those babies, and then rent myself out as stud. Think of the untold millions I could earn! THAT will get me out of credit card hell, that's for sure!

    I just looked in the mirror. That's not going to work.

    MLB still sucks, thanks for the link, metsforme.

    9:12 AM

    Anonymous Danny said...

    Where have you gone Michael Oliver? A nation turns its lonely eyes on you...

    11:07 AM

    Anonymous Anonymous said...

    Great resource. keep it up!!Thanks a lot for interesting discussion, I found a lot of useful information!With the best regards!

    2:04 PM

    Anonymous Anonymous said...

    Hello world! I'm from Latvia, I now have a computer and Internet! It's so interesting here! But on some forums I see strange posts, they offer to buy some pills or something and they look very stupid. It is robots posting? I thought moderators should delete such posts. Maybe somebody will explain me what's going on? But at all it is very interesting to speak to all you people!
    Kisses! :)

    4:45 PM

    Anonymous Scott from Peekskill said...

    Wow, I go away for a little while and when I come back I find a one stop shop ranging from baseball, erectile dysfunction medication, ways to help my blog writing while simultaneous;y helping my credit score and best of all I found out how to find a Ukrainian bride.

    Where the hell is Mikhail Oliverski???

    And where the fuck is the sun?

    11:03 PM

    Anonymous DG said...

    Victor Zambrano is no longer our concern, which is a good thing. The spammers driving every decent blog out of existence is not however. Hopefully, MikeyO is not out there and fed up. I wish we could put a commenter's password on this baby with the right to seek permission to comment by contacting Mike. I hate spammers!

    2:52 PM

    Anonymous sidd finch said...

    I noticed that itsmetsforme requires that you enter the letters that are shown in a jpeg or something, and that seems to stop automated spammers. that might be easier for everyone.

    Does anyone think Victor is going to be effective for the Blue Jays? I tend to think that an elbow operation isn't going to fix the part of VZ's game that needed fixing: the sudden lack of control in tight situations.

    Natasha, where is moose?

    8:38 AM

    Blogger Itsmetsforme said...

    Mr Met, have you made an exclusive deal with Dire*cTV?

    Your lack of posts is forcing me to update my own site more frequently, and no one wants that.

    Sidd: Is that what that is? I thought it was a special intellegence test for bloggers, which explains why I can't get access to my own blog! Tricky little letters!

    3:28 PM

    Anonymous Scott said...

    Why can't we get a law passed to prosecute spammers. Would be real easy to do. For example the good folks at spin-sthlm.org/Members/sell2006/auto-insurance.html?auto-insurance-quotes]auto insurance quotes would be liable for the spam here unless they fess up to whom they hired to spam for them...afterall, no-one spams for free...they only give away free Viagra.

    8:11 PM

    Anonymous Anonymous said...

    Hello world! I'm from Latvia, I now have a computer and Internet! It's so interesting here! But on some forums I see strange posts, they offer to buy some pills or something and they look very stupid. It is robots posting? I thought moderators should delete such posts. Maybe somebody will explain me what's going on? But at all it is very interesting to speak to all you people!
    Kisses! :)

    4:15 AM

    Anonymous Anonymous said...

    never saw such befor... [url=http://tinyurl.com/5555830931]such a hottie.[/url]

    Help me you just click and i get 1 more pic

    3:08 PM


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