A blog dedicated to the New York Mets with some other baseball thrown in.

Tuesday, December 12, 2006

Nobody is above an ass-whooping

People have been counting the years down until Barry Zito was a free agent. People were drooling at the prospect of being able to get the left-hander on the right age of 30 on their favorite baseball team. Now? He's a veritable whipping boy a very expensive back end starter. You can throw all comps at me between this guy on the market and that guy on the market over the past three years, but I just want to give you some tasty morsels to chew on for today.

I want Zito on the Mets bad and I'm sick of all the trash talking that he is not a number one or a number two, but probably a number three! There are not many teams Barry would be a number three on and if he is a 'number three', that is because there are two top, top tier pitchers ahead of him, which generally is not the norm. Barry is still one of the best in the league and here is a nice comparison through age 28 between another lefty who has been pretty successful.

Tom Glavine through age 28:
 G    IP     HR  W  L   ERA  h/9  WHIP  k/9  bb/9  k/bb  w%
233 1522.2 104 108 75 3.58 8.67 1.30 5.34 3.03 1.76 .590
Barry Zito through age 28:
 G    IP    HR   W   L   ERA  h/9  WHIP  k/9  bb/9  k/bb  w%
222 1430.1 148 102 63 3.55 7.73 1.25 6.90 3.52 1.96 .618
When you take into consideration the offensively charged era that Zito did that in while pitching in the American League, you would have to be impressed. If he keeps pace with Tom Glavine for the duration of his career, he will be worth every penny he gets. I'm not saying he's worth $20 million per season, but six years at $96 million is not looking so bad.

Despite Keith Law's insane statement that Gil Meche and Ted Lilly were actually above Zito on the totem pole, the guy is a top tier arm. Zito may not be your typical ace being he won't blow batters away, but he has the ability to be the best pitcher on any staff he is on and would be a legitimate Cy Young Award candidate in New York City on this Met team. Zito's contract will be much maligned when it happens and whoever hands him that boatload of cash will catch a fair amount of negative press, but do not believe the hype. Barry Zito is an ace.

* * *

  • Back from the dark side and a failed managerial debut, Lee Mazilli!

    Mazzilli, whose contract wasn't renewed by the Yankees, will join pre- and post-game studio host Matt Yallof for 85 of the 125 games on the Mets' network. The SportsNet New York broadcast team includes former Mets' teammates Keith Hernandez and Ron Darling and lead booth announcer Gary Cohen.

    "[They will] form one of baseball's elite broadcast teams," said Jon Litner, president of SportsNet New York, during a conference call on Monday. "[Mazzilli has] strong Mets roots and a deep passion for baseball."


    Good to see he's back.

  • Ken Rosenthal agrees with me about Gil Meche.

    I'm not saying I like this contract.

    I'm just saying I understand it.


  • Daisuke will not be in Boston and he certainly won't be on the Mets.
  • 48 Comments:

    Anonymous seattle steve said...

    I've seen Gil Meche enough to know he is not a 11 mill pitcher and no matter what sane reasoning one may give to that signing is only fooling himself.
    It looks as though Zito is ours to lose, with the way the market is and has turned out it looks as though 16 mil for 5 yrs w/ an easy to make 6th year option will be the end result.
    It saddens me that the $$$'s it takes to sign free agents just shows that you cannot trade for cheap players that you control contractually, I'm glad Omar resisted the temptation so far in trying to get the one year fix ( Vazquez, Garcia, etc.)

    1:05 AM

     
    Anonymous benny said...

    Mike you son of a bitch, you made me want Zito a little more than I did before. I went from "whatever" whether we get him or not, to "gotta have him".

    Lee Mazilli went from manager, to bench coach to pre-game and post-game host.
    Jesus... how low can he go?

    2:30 AM

     
    Anonymous DG said...

    You make a great case for Zito as a veritable number 2 starter. I'm convinced, but it's hard to say that the Mets are. We'll see in the next week as the Mets and Boras are sure to get going once the Matsuzaka negotiations are done.

    I still read the transfer rules as offering a possibility that the Mets might get a shot at D-Mat, but I cannot really see an agreement not being reached between the Sox & Boras. It's a screwed up system regardless.

    So, it will be funny when our starting second baseman this year will turn out to be Marcus Giles, won't it? If he's non-tendered, you gotta believe the Mets will be all over him, though San Diego is going to be there too. I know his OBP could be better and people are less impressed with his defense than a couple of years ago, but I think he would make a lot of sense, frankly.

    In fact, the Mets would be smart to try to send a middling prospect to the Braves today in order to keep him off the FA market where his cost would go up.

    5:56 AM

     
    Anonymous Anonymous said...

    If you compare Zito's performance to Willis's over their careers you Willis has a slight edge. Factor in that Zito pitches in the AL and the delta between the two is gone. K rate, BB rate, ERA, IPs all say Zito is greater than or equal to Willis. Yet Willis is viewed as an ace. Bottom line: Zito is a #1 pitcher. He may not have a dominant fastball so his margin for error is low but he gets the job done year after year. In the NL, on the Mets I expect the norm will be 16 - 20 wins and an ERA under 3.5. Not dominant but still a legit #1 starter.

    6:57 AM

     
    Blogger mr. met said...

    Well, I think we all agree that Meche is getting overpaid...as is Marquis...as is Lilly...as is just about every free agent from this off-season, but the Royals absolutely had to make a move. I think their acquisitions this off-season help them move closer to respectability.

    It also just goes to show you how important it is to draft and develop your own players for sustained success. Really, small market teams that are struggling right now need to gut and rebuild. The Royals cannot buy their way back into contention, but they have nothing to trade to rebuild. Moore was faced with a problem and he went for it. I've got to agree with his actions his rotation is not that bad and he has some nice offensive pieces to add into the mix. I'm not saying they will contend in '07, but I certainly don't think they will be whipping boys.

    It saddens me how people try and rip off the Mets..."Oh, you want Garcia? Give me Pelfrey and Milledge." Huh? The Mets are not going to get any help due to a bias against them so Omar has to be creative, target is trading partners and continue to build from within and especially on the pitching front.

    Benny, I'm a glorious son of a bitch, but those stats are pretty telling for me. Anyone who says Zito is not that good has to look you in the eye and say Glavine wasn't really that good in his 20's.

    I still read the transfer rules as offering a possibility that the Mets might get a shot at D-Mat, but I cannot really see an agreement not being reached between the Sox & Boras. It's a screwed up system regardless.

    Technically it's possible, but I don't buy it. I see him going back to Japan as the Red Sox did make a fair offer, but everyone knew Boras would not accept that.

    The system is not that screwed up, just mildly with the only problem being the biggest. These players are under contract and teams losing these players want to be compensated. The obvious part I don't like and one that would motivated a team to actually sign the player is that he would fall to the next club if they fail to sign. I do not like how the player could essentially be blocked.

    Marcus Giles a Met? Man, I hate him, but that would be interesting. He would make a lot of sense and he could rebound at the bottom of the order too.

    Problem is, the Mets don't have any middling prospects.

    Orangeandblueblood,

    Good stuff. 16-20 wins is what I would expect for the life of his contract with one stellar year in there. As far as Willis goes, Zito also has more years under his belt and has has done it longer. There is something to be said for that. Also, outside of facing the Mets, Willis has a 4.60+ ERA or something like that.

    10:08 AM

     
    Anonymous Coop said...

    What's this I hear about Zito being in NY this week BUT NOT TO MEET WITH THE METS?!?!?!?! You have to be f'ng kidding me. Yet, his agent might be up to his ears in sushi dealing with the Dice-K negotiations. Is it me, or is he being a real rat b@stard about the whole thing? I hope the Sox get him, just so I can shut my Yankee fan friends faces up. Later

    10:40 AM

     
    Anonymous benny said...

    Actually I don't think Boras is being the dick this time. From everything I've read, the Red Sox did make an offer but it like a 3 year offer for $7 million per year.
    That's almost a slap in the face. They're gonna bid $51 million but then offer and offensive contract?
    They knew what they were gonna get themselves into with Boras being the agent and all.
    Boras may be a dick but one thing he wouldn't do is completely AVOID a negotiation like the Red Sox seem to be saying. They're jsut being slick and going to the media blaming it on Boras, so when they don't sign him, the fans will think it had to do with Boras and not with the Red Sox being dumbasses.

    If Giles is non-tendered, I'm sure the Padres will offer something and he'd go there...

    11:47 AM

     
    Blogger mr. met said...

    Daisuke ain't going to no Red Sox. Maybe things get done if they agree to $10 million per year over five years, but that is still $20 million a year for Daisuke when all is said and done.

    Why Zito has not been wined and dined is beyond me. It's silly really.

    11:47 AM

     
    Anonymous benny said...

    Shit is wierd. Zito is in NYC for some charity.
    Boras is in Cali smoking reefer with Jeff Weaver.
    Can't do anything without the man of the hour.

    Some Pittsburgh newspaper (forgot which one) said the Pirates are shopping Jose Castillo. I like him alot.
    He's a notch below AHern's defense but can, you know... actually hit.

    12:05 PM

     
    Anonymous Coop said...

    See, I'm going to have to go ahead and sort of disagree with you guys there. I think that the Sox initially low-balled to get a counter-offer. I think the media would like to think that Sox c-blocked the Skanks from getting the guy, but they have also not been given a "counter-offer" by Boras yet and flew to California unannaounced to get the ball rolling. If that doesn't show good faith, I don't know what does. Maybe I'm in the minority, I think the Sox are going to do what they can to sign the guy. ^shrug^ Then again, I like to think the best of people

    As for Omar, he is a sh*t head if he doesn't pull out the stops for Zito. He's out of his friggin mind. Then again, we didn't exactly wine and dine Beltran either, and as soon as the Astros were out of the running, Omar put a deal on the table for him.

    if we think about it, the only wining and dining we've done under Omar's watch was for Wags (why??) and for Pedro, but technically, Pedro dined Omar for Thanksgiving that year.

    I guess we just wait now. Sucks.

    12:12 PM

     
    Anonymous Coop said...

    PS Hey mike, have you received your season plan invoice yet? The price of success...my prices have gone up significantly. Hope to dump a lot of games on Stubhub this year.

    12:17 PM

     
    Blogger mr. met said...

    Anyone read the article on ESPN where Boras called Daisuke "Fort Knox"? They man is nuts. Boston is sure trying to paid a specific picture.

    Castillo would be costly, no? What would the Mets surrender? Non-blue chip pitching?

    Not yet, but I expected them to go up. Pretty ridiculous how fast they have been going up. And success should not = higher ticket prices. They mad MORE money, kept the payroll the same, and still need more money? Wow. Just wow.

    12:23 PM

     
    Anonymous benny said...

    And the prices are only going to get higher especially in 2009 with the new ballpark.

    I <3 Stub hub. Without them I wouldn't have had the pleasure of seeing playoff games. To me nothing as of right now can match watching a playoff game live.

    12:40 PM

     
    Anonymous Coop said...

    Well Benny - all I can say is...I can be your personal StubHub and make a "deal" with you for some games.

    I'm having a Draft Day - where if people participate and buy tickets from my boyfriend and me (discounted of course), they get entered into a drawing for NLDS tickets. Providing they even make it. Hugs

    12:58 PM

     
    Anonymous Coop said...

    Oh one more thing - I know they are lowering the attendance automatically but with all the sweet moolah they are making off Citigroup, I would think that the prices might be raised this year, than maybe stagnate. That's when I can start seeing a return for all these games, people will want to go to the nice new stadium in NY. Boo yah!

    12:59 PM

     
    Blogger mr. met said...

    I would think that the prices might be raised this year, than maybe stagnate.

    Or they can keep raising them a few bucks a year and people will pay. If they raised my prices again, they better give me Zito. That's all I'm saying.

    1:12 PM

     
    Anonymous Coop said...

    And someone to wash my b@lls. Not that I have them or anything.

    1:16 PM

     
    Blogger mr. met said...

    Well that goes without saying...

    2:24 PM

     
    Blogger mr. met said...

    on both accounts...

    2:24 PM

     
    Blogger Raincntry said...

    The issue isn't whether or not Zito is a good pitcher. The issue is whether or not he's worth what Boras is asking. He has fine numbers, and is a very good #2 pitcher. He's not an ace, he's not a power arm, he's not worth $17 million per year. If the Cubs and the Rangers want to overpay for free agents, so be it. Omar does not have to do that anymore. If Zito wants the chance to play in the World Series next year, great, take the Mets' offer and come on board, if he wants to set a new standard for pitcher's contracts then he needs to go somewhere else.

    3:52 PM

     
    Anonymous benny blanco from da bronx said...

    Just learned something new today. Te Hagerstown Suns are no longer affiliated with the Mets.
    They're with the Nationals now.
    The new Mets low A affiliate are now the Savannah Sand Gnats.
    YES! the Gnats baby!

    3:57 PM

     
    Anonymous Farva hates y&%*ees said...

    Coop is da man...ah WOman that is. But seriously, you don't have to skip the letters out on swear words. c-block?!?!? I wasn't sure women knew what that was...call me re-edumakated. But isn't it funny that saying sh*thead is not offensive when we all know what the word means?

    fuck this shit, this MoFo is no longer skipping fucking letters. Fuck yeah! There is only one swear word I will block...y*****s, sons of bitches.

    I disagree on the Sox. I really think this was a cunt block. They bid waaaay over what everyone else did and now can't find a middle ground? They want 7m, Borat wants 12m. If Borat comes to 8m will the sox drop their offer to 5m? Obviously not but I do think they are not serious about getting him, only stopping the Y*****s.

    4:04 PM

     
    Anonymous benny blanco from da bron said...

    I really think this was a cunt block.

    I'm speechless. Amazing.

    4:19 PM

     
    Blogger mr. met said...

    That's the point. In today's money, Zito sure looks like he's worth $16 million per year. $11 for Meche? Or an extra five for Zito? $40 over four years for Suppan? $44 over four years for Lilly?

    Zito is more than a #2 and would be the Mets #1 next year until Pedro comes back and that is if Pedro returns to form. I think he might struggle a bit for the remainder of the year with some gems thrown in. It's imprerative the Mets bring Zito in so they can actually have a true ace for the first half. So he doesn't throw hard. I find it hard to care that much as long as he has an out pitch and can set up batters and work them over. He has that ability and can do that. Purists like an ace to dominate with a fastball. I don't buy it. Pedro was throwing as hard as Zito in 2006 in ace-like fashion. Of course Pedro is better than Zito and one of the best, if not the best of all time (during a five year stretch or so), but Zito is no slouch.

    Farva,

    I second that.

    Benny,

    Interesting tidbit. That was a very under the radar switch of affiliations. Didn't hear much about that and I guess it was nice to have them for one season.

    4:21 PM

     
    Blogger Anthony said...

    Gents...big news today. I just landed a gig in NYC. Moving back after spending the last twenty years of my adult life trying to make my way back. Most recently in Chitown. Going to be in the lower east side. Thought I'd share this kickass news with Mike and all you peeps here at Metropolitans. Mets season tickets here I come! Good to be back! Drinks on me if you guys ever want to jump in the city to hang!

    Now let's get Zito. I need a good first year back!

    5:31 PM

     
    Anonymous DG said...

    HEY Victor No Brains!, don't let the door hit you on the way out!!!

    Non-tendered!

    8:13 PM

     
    Blogger John in RI said...

    Finally some good news!!! So long VZ.

    8:37 PM

     
    Anonymous Farva hates y*****s said...

    "Zambrano will be free to sign with any club -- the Mets included -- for any figure at the Major League minimum or more. He had been willing to pitch in relief to improve his chances of returning to the Mets and to return to the big leagues earlier."--Ah, no goodbyes to Zambrano yet. I'll bet my lefty that Omar makes him a $1m offer very soon.

    9:08 PM

     
    Anonymous Coop said...

    Funny, I think Zamboner will be on the team again too. But you know what? I'm quite curious to see how he'll do all fixed up. He could be flat out filthy sometimes. Remember that game against Carlos Zambrano in August 2005? I remember thinking - this dude is on to something...

    9:19 PM

     
    Anonymous Screamin DG said...

    This is just deplorable:

    …boy, those were the days, weren’t they…

    …it was a wild ride, victor, we’ve been through a lot together, but the marriage has finally come to an end…

    …i wish you the best of luck, friend…be healthy…

    Who writes this kind of drivel? Our experience with VZ has been akin to having your teeth extracted through your spine with an ice pick. It hasn't been wild; it has been excruciating!

    I hope Omar is wise enough to let the guy just go.

    4:08 AM

     
    Anonymous jake said...

    mike, i hate your new job.

    10:59 AM

     
    Anonymous Coop said...

    DG, why don't you tell us how you *really* feel about Metsblog????? :p

    11:40 AM

     
    Anonymous DG said...

    I don't want to completely lambaste a valuable resource, but occasionally, I curdle at what gets written. Actually a little more than occasionally these days.

    1:15 PM

     
    Anonymous jake said...

    yeah, a while back we were dogging metsblog when benny set us straight, with good reason, cause cerrone does get the breaking news up stat. so that's why we all go there. and i'll be nice and not say anything more.

    1:44 PM

     
    Blogger mr. met said...

    Anthony, welcome back.

    DG and John...Rid us of that evil. Not bad huh? Trade Kazmir for a guy who essentially did nothing for us. Awesome deal. Though I'm afraid Farva is right. However, with the crowded rotation picture, he'll most likely sign a deal where he actually has a shot. I cannot see him coming back. I can see him going somewhere else and actually being good much to our dismay, but we need to be seperated from him.

    Jake, sorry man. I would have posted last night but I was out for my b-day...It's tougher to post with the new job, but whatever. I can safely say it was right move with the exception of reduced blogging.

    MLBTradeRumors.com reports that Daisuke has signed.

    1:45 PM

     
    Anonymous Coop said...

    Mike - happy bday! I didn't realize you had a sister with the same name as me (no, not named "Coop") and almost the same birthday as me! OK, maybe 10 days apart. But happy b-day nonetheless. I always found ironic that I was born in the winter and thrive in the summer. Go fig-ya

    I gotta say - holy schnikeys on the Dice-K signings.

    One more - yes, I go to MBlog so I can follow the news. But it's more objective than subjective. Plus the commenters there are VILE. Gawd forbid you disagree with any of 'em

    1:51 PM

     
    Anonymous Utter DG said...

    HEY MAN, HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!! But really, no post? How inconsiderate!

    Ain't that much news anywhere anyway except for what looks like a Matsuwhatsu signing. That's good as hopefully we'll see what's going to happen with Mr. B Zito before we all prematurely gray and suffer heart attacks. Or worse, be so completely deprived of anything interesting that we actually pay attention to the (ewww!...) Knicks!

    Still you must do your best to save us from that fate fine Sir! Just not on your swellicious womb extraction anniversary!

    1:56 PM

     
    Anonymous Coop said...

    DG, i'm so desperate for sports, I'm thinking of reconverting back to hockey, even though I vowed not to go to a game again.

    2:15 PM

     
    Blogger mr. met said...

    I haven't been to any blogs outside of mine and Metsgeek.com for a while now. Mostly because of time so I don't know much about the goings on of their sites.

    No post until Friday most likely. Tonight is a company party and I'm not sure much writing will get done tonight, but hopefully these Daisuke negotiations ending will mean Zito is about to move.

    Just not on your swellicious womb extraction anniversary!

    Great line...my friend also had a great line this morning..."I was so drunk I forgot it was your birthday."

    I'm never to desperate for hockey.

    2:31 PM

     
    Blogger Anthony said...

    Thanks Mike! Good to back my friend. Good to be back.

    Happy Birthday. hopefully your new job doesn't frown on wreaking at the office of liqour with a hangover!

    No more Zambrano. Thank you lord.

    Now that matisyahu is with Boston, we should see zito land quickly. Great post on that situation. He is the real deal and will be a great addition to this staff.

    4:20 PM

     
    Blogger mr. met said...

    My office and wreaking of liquor go hand and hand. You can stay out all night and come into work and no one would care so much. In fact, someone was actually sent home to shower from stinking from the night before.

    4:50 PM

     
    Anonymous Anonymous said...

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    10:17 PM

     
    Blogger Anthony said...

    Nice! Sounds like you definitely made the right move.

    11:07 PM

     
    Anonymous Farva hates Shitlanta said...

    Who here ordered the Levitra? Mike, Is that what you ordered for your birthday?

    Shitlanta non-tendered Chris Reitsma. I'm thinking Omar already has an offer out there to him for spring training. He offers another cog in the Heilman trading chip mechanics IF (it is a big if) he can regain some of his form.

    Shitlanta is dumping alot of players this offseason and to be honest their young guys just don't scare me. Add to that the fact that Druuuuuuw will be dealt this season, if not this offseason and Larry coming to the end of his life...Shitlanta really look like crap. AND I LOVE IT!!!!!

    12:55 AM

     
    Anonymous DG said...

    According to the NYTimes this morning, Omar has no interest in Marcus Giles.

    3:19 AM

     
    Anonymous jake said...

    anthony,

    was it you that posted last spring about eating egg yokes for breakfast (we were discussing franco's diet)? not sure why, maybe mike's comment about dude getting sent home to wash away his hangover, but i just remembered how you said binging on the weekends combined with egg protein shakes and workouts during the week gave you special gas. is that right? if so could you please recap the diet cause i'd like to stink out some coworkers at our holiday party. thanks!

    10:00 AM

     
    Blogger Emad Mekhaeil said...

    http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=5763

    We have MUCH to discuss.

    7:04 PM

     
    Anonymous Farva hates y*****s said...

    emad...great catch! The top 4 prospects are really talked up. Gomez sounds like the real deal.

    It would appear that Soler is trade bait for a Pittsburgh or KC.

    7:43 PM

     

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