Something to Prove
"I absolutely think the Mets are still looking over their shoulders at us," Marcus Giles, the Braves second baseman, said yesterday. "They know what our track record is. And if we do what we have to do this weekend, they'll be looking even harder over their shoulders. They know where we are."
The Mets are on pace for 96 wins at this point in the season. Out of the 45 seasons they have been in existence, they have won 100 games only three times as their cross-town rivals have won 100 games three out of the last four years. The Mets might seem like they are in cruise control, but those smug fuckers (aka the Braves) are out there thinking they have a chance.
"I still don't think any of us are consumed with the wild card," Francoeur said. "We still think we can win the division. We're, what, 12 out now? If we sweep and we get that lead under double-figures ..." His smile finished the sentence.
Pedro Martinez is back and that cannot be taken for granted. They still have pitching problems, but this guy is the lifeblood of this team. When he goes out there, best stuff of not, the guy is amazing. He pumps up the Mets and he pumps up the fans. As off as Pedro has been, he still has a .202 BAA and a 1.00 WHIP. His K/9 is actually up from last year and he is still a certifiable ace no matter which way you look at it.
The Mets goal for the rest of the season should be to burry the Braves and top the century mark in wins. The Mets are facing three good pitchers this weekend, but it is imperative they march into Turner Field where they are 22-52 overall all time (22-55 if you include the playoffs) and keep the pressure on. The Mets seemingly have nothing to play for and could cruise into October, but they do have things to play for. They can silence the Braves and their fans and get home field advantage throughout the playoffs. 100 wins would just about guarantee them home field advantage this year and Shea in October could be scary for visiting teams with 55,000+ maniacs foaming at the mouth.
Jack (NYC, NY): After 17 scoreless innings, is Maine the real deal or do we need to trade for Zito now? I'll trade for Willis but I'm not so sure about 2 month rental Zito.
SportsNation Rob Neyer: If you're the Mets, you have to worry a bit about your No. 4 starter in October. But I think Maine or Hernandez will be good enough, and if I were them I wouldn't do a thing to the rotation.
I think they will be good enough for the fourth spot too...now about that third spot....
Jake (VA Beach): Rob, why wouldn't you make the move for Zito if Billy Beane is truthful in only needing Milledge in return? Aren't OF prospects the easiest to replace, and the Mets are one of the few teams who can afford to make sure it's more than a rental at season's end.
SportsNation Rob Neyer: Because the Mets have a huge lead, and giving up Milledge isn't worth the tiny increase in your World Series chances that Zito would give you. Now, it's different if trading for Zito gives you a great increased chance at signing him to a long-term contract. This is complicated stuff, huh.
Jake, is that you?
David (Michigan): Rob, the top 3 ERA leaders in MLB are Francisco Liriano, Josh Johnson, and Justin Verlander. How amazing is it that the top 3 leaders in the big leagues are rookies?
SportsNation Rob Neyer: Umm, pretty amazing. I've been waiting to see, or conduct, a comprehensive study of this rookie class (for one thing, it's complicated, trying to figure who the "rookies" were in a particular season). But I think it's safe to say that the top three guys in ERA haven't been rookies since 1901.
There is some serious young talent in this league right now like we have not seen in a long, long time. This is a great time to be a baseball fan.
Max (NYC): About Giambi: 1) He's not gonna hit 700 HR - 2) He stunk after he supposedly stopped using roids (.208 BA) and 3) he's presumably started playing well again roid free - we as a country love 2nd chance stories, whereas we're eager to crush people's "easy" success?
SportsNation Rob Neyer: Right. 'roid free. That's a good one.
ZZZZiiiiiinnnggg!
Steve (CT): Who is the best-all around player in baseball?
SportsNation Rob Neyer: Carlos Beltran.
I knew I liked you.
Old Atlanta teammate Tom Glavine, now with the playoff-bound Mets, has been lobbying to get Maddux in New York, and maybe Maddux has changed his mind about pitching there if he could be in a pennant race with his good friend.
posted by michael o. at 10:56 AM
33 Comments:
Marcus Giles is fucking crazy. That's just something he's saying to make him feel better when he goes to sleep.
For some reason, I think Mets fans, Mets players, and people working for the Mets have NO FEAR OF A TEAM UNDER .500!
Those stupid girls deserved to be flown around as if they were in a tornado.
Eric Duncan is good but over-rated. The Yankees fucked up by rushing him, it destroyed his value. Now he's doing very well in AA and nobody gives a shit. Bronson Sardinha could get them something like... a ROberto Hernandez.
According to ESPN, Carlos Lee, Nelson Cruz, and a PTBNL traded for Kevin Mench, Laynce Nix, and COco Cordero.
Doug Melvin you suck ass. Bad deal.
11:28 AM
You think bad? I don't think it's a bad deal for the Brew Crew. They lacked outfield prospects and get two guys back who can start now.
Also, they get a closer so Turnbow can be exiled much to my dissapointment.
There is an even better clip that I'm looking for today that I head on the O&A show. Fucking amazing.
He's doing OK in AA. 10 homers from a corner infielder? Eh....For his age an power, you kind of hoped he would have put more. Mike Carp might end up being just as good a player as him as he just keeps getting better. Yeah, I know he has less homers, but it is in St. Lucie.
11:31 AM
Typical Rangers, though. They need pitching and always go for hitting.
11:53 AM
Nelson Cruz has 20 dingers in AAA. and a .378 OBP
Lee - Mench? Lee wins, Rangers win
Cruz - Nix? Cruz wins, Rangers win
PTBNL - Coco Cordero? Coco wins, Brew Crew win.
Rangers win 2 out of 3.
11:59 AM
If Tex would hit...they would not need hitting, but yeah, they need pitching. But they might be able to bash their way to a AL West crown and that is probably the angle they are taking.
I think the Angels will ultimately win it the West though.
11:59 AM
Nix is younger and has more upside. Cruz turned 26 this month, I'm not sure he is that much to get excited about.
It boils down to cash too. The Brewers have control over all their players as the Rangers might lose Lee...they might put up cash for him, who knows. It's a financial decision and a baseball decision for Melvin.
12:03 PM
I agree with the Count. The Rangers organization has no idea how to build a winner. Pitching, pitching, pitching. Let's also not forget how they shot their wad on A-Fraud. I guess they must love losing 11-8 games to the Yankees and Red Sox.
12:06 PM
I heart Benny.
I just wanted to put that out there.
Anyway, I am pumped for this series. Being in Carolina, I've been subjected to the Braves fans starting to believe in their team again lately. It had been gloriously quiet, but then they scored a bunch of runs for a week and they all jumped back on the bandwagon.
I'd like to see the Mets kick the door in, put their foot on the Braves' neck, and choke the life out of them this weekend. Damn inbreads.
1:27 PM
The more I think about it, the more I don't believe that the Mets need a solid starter for the playoffs.
I think we can realistically follow the 2002 Angles model of winning a World Series. Starting pitching that gives you 5+ innings of 4+ runs, a lights out bullpen, and a lineup that can mash the fuck out of the ball. Would I like to have another starter? Sure, but it has to be the right guy. Which brings me to another point...
If we do go out and get a starter, it has to be a guy that brings the heat. As it stands right now, it's likely that our 4 playoff starters barely hit 91MPH. They are all decent to good starters, but they don't have enough differential in pitch speed between starters to be good in a short series. The other team can just sit back and wait for the 90MPH junk that will inevitably make its way over the heart of the plate. Waiting to get to Sanchez or Wagner does not pitch speed differential make.
That's why I think Penny is so interesting. The Dodgers are 7 back in both the division and the wild card with 9 teams in front of them in the WC. If that's not done, I don't know what is. He's also had to big blow ups with his manager and teammates in the last week. If I were the Dodgers, I'd be looking to unload him for a couple major league ready prospects. He's under contract until 2008 with a $7.2 million club option on 2009. That's exactly the type of pitcher we need to bridge the gap between Pedro/Glavine and Pelfry/Humber.
Would I give up Milledge for him? Not a chance, but I'd do a deal for Heilman, Bell, and Diaz in a second if that would get it done.
Is it likely to happen? No way in hell. It seems like Omar has his sights on either Zito or Willis and is unwilling to trade for another pitcher preferring to go with what he has in Maine/Pelfry/Trachsel/Duque for the stretch run and playoffs.
1:29 PM
The problem with kevin mench is he hit like 75% of those home runs in the spawn of two weeeks and has had a total power outage since. He's stunk up the joint, just awful. I do think he has potential but he's not getting any younger and he's only getting more expensive. That said the brew crew couldn't afford to resign Carlos Lee so I think they did fairly well in acquiring all MLB ready talent that is fairly young and inexpensive. Of course had they just kept Lee and let somebody else sign him they would recieve 2 first round picks for him (First rounder and a sandwich I think for the highest level of talent being signed from you, correct me if i am wrong).
Heard a rumor that the Mets are trying to acquire Maddux. Granted he supposedly wouldn't cost much but this guy is almost 40 and has been stinking it up. I would rather rather just see Maine pitch (I think...).
1:39 PM
SPAN of two weeks not SPAWN
2:18 PM
Kenny is going all Lance Bass on us. Very sweet...and no, there is nothing wrong with that.
Ha, those assholes. 11 1/2 out? Yes, they have played well, but the Mets have maintained their stronghold. It would have to be a huge, huge swing for them and their pitching is still suspect overall.
Me too...If it was not for James, I'd say sweep.
Bum, the thing is this. If the Mets do get a starter, they significantly widen the gap in the NL and possibly have the best playoff rotation out of everyone. It gives the Mets control. Could they win as is? Yes, but they would have a harder time. If the right deal comes along, it's got to get done. The Mets are good so they are in position to over pay.
Again, love the Penny idea. I wonder if they consider him a guy that can be an ace and they can build around. I really, really like that idea. You can get a good deal done for Penny that did not include Humber or Milledge, but it boils down to whether or not they actually want to trade him. The problem is they have TONS of talent almost ready now. Kemp, Billingsley, Guzman, Either (sp?), Broxton, Loney is close, etc...They have a cheap starter available to them for a few years to mix up with the young guys. They view him as valuable, it would have to be a decent deal to shake him loose because he still fits into the long and short term plan.
Brian, the problem is, the Brewers feel they are close to contention. A few good young arms, a young infield, Ryan Braun on the way....two 1st round picks don't help them for potentially three years. They wanted MLB ready talent now. I think they did good.
2:24 PM
No need to worry about grammar or spelling Brian....No one cares here and they are used to my crappy as writing.
2:25 PM
jake in vb wasn't me. i post nowhere but here.
according to what i just read, mench and francisco are both free agents at the end of the season, so i don't get the deal at all. from either pov really, as texas needs pitching. but, whatever. the only reason i care at all is bc i was hoping the mets would get lee (i still hope they sign him in the offseason).
i only want an ace (willis, schmidt) and i don't mind paying or a lieber type if it's dirt cheap. but i don't stress bc i think omar is the man and he has all of my confidence.
neyer irritates me, but i do agree that beltran is the best. SO underrated on defense. btw, a (braves fan) relative told me a while back that a player poll was taken and beltran was voted most overrated. i guess the poll was after last season, which could make some sense. but this season i think he is most underrated. motherfucker fuckin rules.
2:52 PM
p.s.
i hope kazmir's sore shoulder stays sore. both for fantasy and reality reasons.
2:55 PM
Jake, i appreciate the dedication. You have been quiet lately.
Really? I thought Mench was under control for a bit. He only played four years, so he should be good through 2007.
Omar is the man. Dually noted.
I still cannot believe Beltran's average. He has me thinking he is a .330 hitter when I see him and the numbers just do not match.
Jeter is the most overrated. Period.
I would never wish hard on Kazmir for reality reasons. It wasn’t his fault, the Mets look bad even if the never pitches again. What he has done so far is worlds ahead of what Zambrano added. For fantasy reasons? You are allowed to wish harm.
3:30 PM
Bum, the thing is this. If the Mets do get a starter, they significantly widen the gap in the NL and possibly have the best playoff rotation out of everyone. It gives the Mets control. Could they win as is? Yes, but they would have a harder time. If the right deal comes along, it's got to get done. The Mets are good so they are in position to over pay.
Sure, but what is really out there? Willis isn't going anywhere. Zito more likely than not isn't going anywhere. What are the options? I have no doubt that we could get a nice sub .500 4.50+ ERA type pitcher in a second if we were willing to take on their salary, but does that improve our team at all? If we're really talking about getting a guy that can make an impact in the playoffs than we've got to be resigned to going into October with our current staff. And if we are going to get one of those type pitchers, I'd rather it be a guy that throws in the mid to high 90's even if he has control issues.
The point I was making was that 'pitching and defense', while always important and better to have than not have, is not the only model for winning the WS anymore. We've got the pen and the bats to keep us in any game even if the starting pitching struggles.
Actually, the more I think about it, I think our bench is too weak for the World Series. I think we were exposed in interleauge play for not having a capable bench for AL play. With Valentin starting, we have no pop from the left side. Hell, we have no pop on the bench from the right side either. Sure Endy is a nice player, but we don't have a thumper to DH or provide a match up nightmare for an AL manager. Julio Franco doesn't scare anyone and he can barely catch up with a major league fastball. He's a mistake hitter and recently he hasn't been hitting those either.
Now, the only thing going for us is that in the playoffs you don't need as many pitchers so it frees up a roster spot or two for some bats off the bench.
We need a Ruben Sierra type of player.
Back to Penny for a second. I didn't think he was available, and may not be at all, until he got into the flair ups with Little and Lofton. Penny is a hot head, always has been, and the Dodgers don't have the leadership type either on the field or in the dugout to keep him cool. So, if given the option of getting rid of a clubhouse issue I think the Dodgers could be convinced to do it.
Penny coming onto a team going to the playoffs and with strong leadership could blossom into the pitcher he always had the potential to be.
Ok, enough with the Penny. It's too smart a move for the Mets to make. I should resign myself to getting Livan for Heilman and be happy that it wasn't Livan for Milledge,
3:31 PM
The Mets are good so they are in position to over pay.
That was to NOT overpay. Sorry.
3:38 PM
As for the right deal, I'm talking about a deal that involves Zito that Olney was floating around in which Milledge's name was not mention. Heilman and Gomez would be better than any guys they can draft next year with their sandwich picks.
The are looking Carl Everett off the bench as a lefty.
Penny is a hot head....I hear you, but I don't think their issues with him have reached Odalis Perez-type proportions. It's worth a shot though, I agree. Heilman might be considered a close replacement for '07 and beyond and much cheaper and they can have something else in terms of a C+ prospect too. Maybe they bite, who knows. I think it is worth a shot.
Ha...the pessimism is allways there with Mets fans...No way Livan is on this team even if he was free. It doesn't even make sense.
3:42 PM
yeah i know i've been quiet. kinda busy, some vacation, very busy with my other other fantasy league bordering on obsession. but i never miss a post even if i don't have time to comment.
4:58 PM
My posts are pointless, but thanks for reading them.
5:09 PM
Your posts are good mike, you say what a lot of us are thinking but you do it much prettier than we would. Plus you do those nice little analysis of goofy stats that some of us (me) arent motivated enough to really look into but totally love when they are summarized for us. Plus i always love the list of links at the bottom. Now that i'm done giving you a verbal hand job...
I don't think there is any clear trade that makes the mets that much better. Would a willis or zito? Sure but what would we have to give up? If it doesn't involve pelfrey, humber, or lastings i'm listening. We could use a big lefthand bat off the bench, but i'm not really sure who is available for that. Possibly they could just take a hot lefty from AA or AAA when rosters expand.
I do not trust Aaron heilman anymore, Im totally willing to part with him. His attitude doesn't seem too great and he NEVER came off as much of a bulldog/gamer to me. Even as a starter he doesnt' wow me. 3rd time around the order if they know you are throwing a changeup and your sinker is garbage... bad news. At least with pelfrey his beraking stuff sucks but if you know a wicked moving 95mph fastball is coming it can still be really hard to hit. At the very least i think pelfrey could be effective from the pen this season, of course he has displayed some wildness but god knows we are used to it from our other relievers.
5:28 PM
Let's trade for Rosario Dawson!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3cwBDXgtM4g
5:36 PM
Good idea tbm! Saw her when I was in LA last week. So f'ing hot.
When I read an article last week with all the Braves and their fans talking smack about how they're still the team to beat. I couldn't take it anymore. So I booked a flight down to Atlanta to watch us bury the Braves this weekend. My brother lives down there and is a huge Met fan as well. I'm working tonight until midnight and then get up at 5AM tomorrow morning for a 7AM flight down there so I can watch our boys put the dagger in the Braves. I'm going to be dropping close to a grand at the end of the day to watch the end of the Braves once and for all. I fully expect it. I'm going down in full Mets gear and looking forward to fucking with Atl redneck lame fans. Can't wait for this one. Looking for a sweep! If you guys see some lunatic in a Mets Piazza jersey with a black Mets cap on getting kicked out...know it's your boy and frequent Metropolitan contributor giving it up!
I'm really burnt out on Heilman and all his whining. He still has never done anything to prove to me he should be a starter. He ALWAYS has that friggin mopy face on. I really hope we trade him for something good.
Oh, and Jake, I'm with you 100% on the Omar thing. The guy is the man. He should run for president after this job. He knows what he's doing.
7:05 PM
Yeah, that guy is a bit coocoo.
8:24 PM
Lets talk lefty of the bench and maybe DH.
How about Darryl Ward from the Nats?
He's been increidbly solid of the bench. He has an over .300 AVG as a PH with 2 HR's. I like him off the bench.
And speaking of the Dodgers how about Derek Lowe?
I mean seriously, the DOdgers are doing pretty bad this year. I think they're done. 7 1/2 back form the divsion and 6 from the wild card?
I think COlletti would be more willing to trade Lowe over Penny and I love Lowe.
8:35 PM
WHOA! My dad was reading a Dominican newspaper and told me that the CUban players from the WBC, Yulieski Gurriel and Eduardo Paret have defected from Cuba and are seeking assylum in Colombia.
Fucking awesome.
Gurriel was the 22 year old OF/2nd baseman of the Cuban team, he was nasty. I see him as the next Miguel Cabrera.
Here's the link:
http://www.elnacional.com.do/app/article.aspx?id=59855
8:43 PM
Suck that Braves.
10:33 PM
Hey Giles, suck on that bitch. So much for single digits, punk.
In trade news, the Braves traded Betemit to the Dodgers for Danys Bayez and Willie Aybar.
Benny, I am with you on D-Lowe. I have posted several times about how I think he is money, especially in the playoffs. If we can get him, I say do it. He would kick some serious ass at Shea.
11:14 PM
WOw, Paladin getting no love and alot of hate.
HAHA! Guys take it easy, me and Paladin were just having fun with our sarcastic comments. It was all in good fun.
6:27 AM
From the Times this morning:
The Oakland left-hander Barry Zito, the other compelling name being bandied about, does not interest the Mets right now. They have not had substantive discussions with the A’s in nearly a month, but if they were suddenly to become more interested, they would not necessarily need to include the coveted prospect Lastings Milledge in the deal. The A’s would start listening to any package with Aaron Heilman.
9:46 AM
It goes to show that trade rumors are worthless. The latest has both Sanchez and Heilman going to Oakland for Zito. Should we send any of our other bullpen pitchers? Would they like Feliciano and Wagner too? Perhaps Bell also.
How much credence are they due? None. 2 hours after I read about Lee being traded to the Rangers I read in USA Today that "Cardinals Confident They will Trade For Carlos Lee." UnFRIKKINbelievable.
10:43 AM
Can we all get along?
10:51 AM
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