A blog dedicated to the New York Mets with some other baseball thrown in.

Tuesday, April 29, 2008

All Quient On the Met Front

Yup. No new news. Nothing. Nothing at all. So, we'll just go back to yesterday's post. Let me clarify things a bit and just make it clear that I do think players at times appear soft and appear to have lost their edge. I complain often about how these thin skinned cry baby players are just gigantic babies when they get all offended if the opposite team celebrates when something good happens.

The push to make robot players with no emotion is a truly bizarre one because colorful people make the game exciting. That being said, the fact that I think baseball players might be thin skinned at times does not have much to do with this situation. Right, I get when people say they should just man up and deal with the booing, but they are still getting killed at home before the game even gets going. Before they even have a chance to do something bad, the boos come raining down.

We are talking about sucking homefield advantage out of the equation and really creating an atmosphere that is less hospitable than when they go away sometimes. When they go down to Florida, it seems they have more support to me. Plenty fans of the Mets are there and actually cheer the team on. You can always hear some nice Mets chants and hear the support.

The only over .500 team last season to have a below .500 home record? The Mets. I'm not saying this has anything to do with it, but it is worth noting. I am just as frustrated as anyone else because the Mets are my favorite team, but it all seems a bit out of control. Enough of me talking...

You are not. The booing has gone beyond ridiculous. I think writing it off as "bandwagoneers" is maybe a little simplistic, but I'm at a loss as to how else to explain it. Certainly nobody who's sat through more than a handful of years of Met baseball can be that impatient.

I get being frustrated by listless play. I've thrown more than one shoe at the radio already this season, but for the love of god. If you hate this team and its players so much that you're willing to voice your disapproval at the drop of a hat, then why the hell are you spending money on the tickets? Just for the opportunity to boo? Isn't that what the Knicks are for? (And, by the way, I do think that situation has informed this one, at least a bit).

I'm all for booing when it's waranted. But, like Delgado's take on curtain calls, I think it rarely is, at least when the home team's involved. Hell, I'm not even much for booing the visitors, with some extremely notable exceptions.

Booing Milledge earlier this season, for instance. Fuck the heck?!?

I digress ...

We're losing it fast, I'm afraid. It doesn't help that the fans are feeling screwed by ownership (ticket prices up, etc.), but in the typical management/labor dychotomy, I'd think that would bring regular joes like us closer to the team.

The sad thing is, these Mets may very well need the full-blooded support of their vocal fanbase this season. Shit, we should be working to make sure they want to win for us. All this booing is, essentially, asking them to become the very thing I think many folks think they're booing: bored, self-serving, in-it-for-the-money players. What the hell else is their motivation if they get told how much they suck every time they come home?

Not to get too personal or anything, but after round about 14 years of being told I didn't measure up, not getting any lovin' and working my fingers to the bone for no apparent reason, I eventually moved out of the house. Now I'm busting my balls to make due as a single dad, but it's a hell of a lot better than putting up with the bullshit.

I took the metaphor too far, but the point is I think we'd all better start showing these players a good time in the sack before we get served with some divorce papers in the form of a .500 season. We need them to want to win for us, the relationship needs to be a two-way street, we need to show a little bit of unconditional love now and then, so they know we value their hard work.

(Which is certainly not a call for rainbows and puppydogs and kitten pie, for christsake. We should sure as hell call 'em like we see 'em, but goddamnit, if I'm shelling out the money to go to a game to support this franchise with which I've lived and died since I was 6 years old, I'm sure as hell not going to waste my time telling them how much I hate them - even if I do at that particular moment. That's what blog comment sections are for).

Phew.


A classic rant by Chris, but there is a lot of truth there. I do understand that the end of '07, ticket prices, and seemingly blasé attitude of the players have concocted an explosive situation. I am in the same boat. I get my Sunday package, I went to the last game of the season last year and witnessed the horrific game, and I pay too much for hot dogs and beer after shelling out what seems like $50 between gas and tolls to get to games only to see handsomely paid players seemingly mail it in.

It is a bad thing. Considering that the average fans has had to put up with the past 10-15 years such as steroids, strikes, absurd costs to go to a game, smaller stadiums which make it harder for average fan, skyrocketing ridiculous salaries, lack of accountability, and the ultimate pussy-fying of the game on the field, the players should be kissing all of our lily white, and brown (and all colors in between) asses!

We need baseball to go back to the 1970s-80s when it was a man's game...not the MTV/ESPN pinball version we see on TV the past several seasons.

Baseball 70s style: When men were men and fat guys were all stars.


I am not saying the fans need to dish out a heaping helping as ass kissing or that booing is completely unacceptable, but there seems to be a big rift between a lot of fans and the players and that is in both directions. We have seen this before and if the Mets turn it around and boos turn into cheers, there will be some lingering 'fuck you' thoughts from the players back out to the fans. Right or wrong, it is probably going to happen.

In fact, the boos serve the opposite purpose, the players get tighter and under-perform. Remember the time that there was that one player who was underachieving and not trying hard, but then the fans booed him a bunch and he realized he was sucking, so because of the boos, he turned his career around and started trying? Yeah, that doesn't exist. The boos can only hurt.

It seems sort of backwards, doesn't it? You are trying to hurt the team you supposedly love.

And really, the "That's baseball in NY" argument is so tired. Tell that to Philly fans or Boston fans. It's passionate, but ill-informed fan behavior. I thought Mets fans were a little smarter, but apparently not. We're just the same as anybody else, if not worse.


Which is what I'm saying. Why make a contentious atmosphere? Booing is fine at times, but Shea is becoming an ugly place to play when Johan Santana pitches well for the Mets this season and gets booed. Think about it. I'm not saying Johan got mad or really was affected, but it certainly says something and I do think that other players take note that New York's stands are filled with douches.

Ultimately money talks and trumps all, but maybe the fact that a player does not feel like dealing with 'New York fans being New York fans' comes into play eventually. They can get paid anywhere, why should they do it here?

I agree with most of the sentiments here, and I rarely boo anyone at sporting events, least of all the Mets.

Having said that, I think that Omar and the organization brought this upon themselves a bit by failing to hold anyone accountable for '07. It was The Collapse, sure, but in truth outside of a short spurt in August, it was a team that underachieved and seemed to lack focus and motivation all season, and everyone who was paying attention knew it. By the time The Collapse happened, as historic as it was, it wasn't all that surprising.

Randolph had to be fired, his professional blood spilled as a purification ritual. I'm serious about that. Someone had to be held accountable for breaking the hearts of half of New York City. When that didn't happen, you just knew that this team was going to be on a very short leash in terms of the patience of their fans. Trading for/buying Santana was a nice gesture, but it didn't address the issue.

The booing, of course, as has been noted by so many here, will only tend to make the players less inspired, and it's a vicious cycle. A new leader, a new voice - both in the clubhouse and in the media - would have gone a long way towards helping the wounds heal. The decision not to do that is haunting this franchise in a very serious way.


I actually do not think this gets brought up enough. Getting Johan assuaged some of the anger, but apparently not enough. This scene is all too familiar and at some point ownership or Omar needs to make a statement. Getting rid of Willie and getting someone with an outward greater sense of urgency and legitimacy would have helped.

Willie has seemed like a bumbling fool in my eyes since day number one with little idea of how to navigate his team through the season but was lucky enough to get saddled with enough talent to cover up his many deficiencies. The Mets were not bereft of solid managerial options either. Being that they love the ride the '86 vibe to death and Gary Carter has proved himself a worthy as a manager, it seems almost too convenient. However, now, the Mets missed their opportunity and the bad blood lives on.

Excellent point that I failed to bring up previously. I think that this whole booing issue would not exist to this extreme had there been some accountability for September. I think the feeling among fans (and I could be wrong, I can't speak for the entire fan base) may have been that they were taken for granted after The Collapse™ by the front office.

Now I don't know if firing Wilie would have been the action to take, given it was a complete and total team and front office effort, and given that Willie was one year off a playoff appearance, som in essence, 2006 may have saved Willie's job after 2007.

But this is a new year and my feeling is that ownership has issued a silent mandate to "win or else" this year to Willie, with Omar on notice next in line should Randolph get the axe.


Was it all Wilie's fault? No. He cannot make the players perform, but he wasted a lot of wins by simply running Mota out there, generally mishandling the bullpen, and not letting the best players play 100% of the time. To me, that is very bad thing and he failed to motivate his team. It is that simple to me and the main reasoning as to why I think Willie should be gone. No Willie + Johan + new manager = a longer honeymoon between the fans and the '08 Mets. Again, the Mets failed to act as they have in so many instances and created what can only be called an ugly situation.

Am I being a little overdramatic? Probably, but it is clear that there is a problem that needs fixing. The only way to fix it is a ridiculous hot streak with a comfortable cushion between 1st and 2nd place or a playoff birth. However, with all the bad blood, either might a bit harder to achieve.

* * *

  • People talk Delgado.

    An arbitrary fun-fact from Sherman, "In the past 25 years, just one champion has had a regular first baseman older than 32 (the 2001 Diamondbacks with 37-year-old Mark Grace)." Delgado's making $16MM this season, and although 35 is often a notorious age at which batters decline, this cliff fall is not the norm. Still, a contract of that magnitude will keep Delgado in New York for at least a short while longer.

    In Buster Olney's latest, he speculated Delgado's release, which seems to be slightly more than speculation at this point. Olney cited Xavier Nady or Scott Hatteberg as potential replacements should the Mets want to trade for a replacement. Nady, however, might not be available until the Pirates say "uncle."


    Hard to envision them simply cutting Delgado, but one has to wonder how much longer this can go on. His .205/.300/ .341 line and his OPS+ of 74 is rather putrid. His OPS+ has went from 161, 129, 161, 131, 103, to 74. While I thought he would be better than this, it is quite reasonable that the man has simply lost it. While I previously agreed with Benny that Delgado can only go up from here, I am starting to think I might want to rescind that statement because I think Delgado can dish out some negative value in 2008.

    The positive thing is that it does seem that Willie gets it and has dropped Delgado in the batting order.

    More Delgado stuff.

    "It's not nice when they boo you (at home), sometimes unfairly," he said. "But who am I to say? I'm not going to stand on the top step and say, 'Don't boo.' I think it's wrong, but nobody's going to listen to me. All I'm saying is we want the fans to be on our side. We haven't been playing that great, all we have to do is play better."

  • The boo-talk is getting boring, but Mary Noble has some good words on the topic.

    As does Bob Raissman.

    "You really can judge people on a baseball team when things aren't going good," Ron Darling said on Ch. 11. "That's when you see the real personality and toughness of your teammates."
    If Darling had substituted the words "fans of" for "people on," he would've expanded his point. It would have been a great one. But it's a rare day when a broadcaster, or any media member for that matter, dares criticize fans.


  • Keith Law talks the draft.

    First baseman Eric Hosmer would probably go in the top five to eight picks overall if it wasn't for his reported demand for a signing bonus of $7 million. Neither Hosmer nor his advisor, Scott Boras, responded to requests for comment. Hosmer has incredible bat speed, plus-plus raw power and good athleticism for a corner player; he's above-average defensively at first with an above-average arm, and might be able to slide to right field for a team already locked in at first base. Hosmer gets his hands into great position to offer both contact and power, gets his arms extended on anything that's not in on his hands and accelerates his wrists from his loaded position get the bat to the ball extremely quickly. If Hosmer has a flaw as a hitter, it's on hard stuff inside, where he can get a little tied up. But in Tuesday's game, almost everything he saw was away, including the breaking ball he hit out to dead center field to win the game -- a ball I never saw land.

    Cross your fingers and pray for him to fall.

  • Tampa keeps on keepin' on with the best run differential in the AL East and has scored one less run than the '1000 run Yankee offense'. With the Yankees pitching woes and plethora of DHs, things could get interesting. Mussina's 4.94 ERA seems passable right now, but his 3.29 k/9 is ugly and he is not going to survive pitching to that much contact. Well, maybe he can survive, but he'll be sporting a high era.

    As for Kennedy and Hughes, their future still looks bright, but right now, they are getting smacked around pretty good. I would love to revisit some of those Yankee fan predictions of how many combined wins their trio of young arms would have in '08 because right now they have one. The one win is not coming out of the rotation either and belongs to Joba.

    Tim Marchman goes over the early surprises.

  • Zito might hit the bullpen to work things out. Wow.

    "We've got to do something," said Bochy, after Zito allowed a six-run first inning. "We can't keep doing what we're doing and getting what we're getting."

  • Hattenberg is not happy on the bench.
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    8 Comments:

    Anonymous tc said...

    $18,000,000 for a middle reliever. Smile Aaron Heilman, there is still hope!

    All this talk of booing and prices makes me feel like I'm a Yankee fan.

    Eric Hosmer makes baseballs go REALLY far and obviously makes women shriek with glee. Is it fair to call him a potential Sugary prospect based on three YouTube videos?
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGB86h_JLNA
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eHvNi6z877I
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1mmSr49H1ZU

    I keep reading everywhere online -- Heyman, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, etc. -- about the Mets and Nady being a great fit. I just don't see how we have the pieces to get him?

    Johan tonight vs. Pirates? Time for Pitt to be further demoralized.

    2:33 PM

     
    Blogger Itsmetsforme said...

    i'll tell you something, the whole booing topic doesn't do anything for me. No matter how much some of our more empowered feeling bloggers wouldnt want to admit it, It's a case of the so called blogosphere being led around by the nose by crusty old beat reporters looking for an angle. i'd rather read about the outfield grass. Having said that this post is an excellent discussion of booing.

    Despite their claims that booing is demotivating the team (a real concern, i suppose) I suspect that many metsfans on the interweb criticize those that boo as a way to differntiate themselves as "real fans." When a real Metsfan "patriotism" would be better served restoring all civility to the ballpark, the cursing, constant screaming, the throwing things, the bullshit that detracts from enjoyment of the game.
    All and all, I'd say the booing issue is another turn of the wheel of the dare i say it bandwagon since the Mets got really really popular for the first time in the era of echo chamber blogging. And I think that is the appropriate context: Mets team sucesss in the age of the 12 yr old with internet access egged on by self important blogger syndrome. Fandom without perspective is just another mob.

    As for the curtains, Delgado still had the best line about the etiquette for curtain calls:
    "Am i going to stay out there until they start booing?"

    2:51 PM

     
    Anonymous Anonymous said...

    They should just fire willie after the very next loss.

    I say we go ahead and blame him entirely for last year.

    not to beat the dead horse but the problem with the mets is last year was hell, and this year still seems like last year.

    jake

    3:20 PM

     
    Anonymous ossy said...

    im not sipping the arizona koolaid.


    that shit is gonna come back down to earth.


    its getting harder to make predictions without the drugs in the clubhouse.


    willie is the #1 reason why we suck.

    delgado and his limp bat is #1a

    4:47 PM

     
    Anonymous tc said...

    Per Adam Rubin:

    "Alou: No fracture, will return Friday in Arizona

    The Mets will have a press conference with Moises Alou later this afternoon. The early buzz is that he may be back this weekend in Arizona, but that hasn’t been confirmed. Stay tuned …

    UPDATE: Can’t be too bad with Alou. He’s working out with the team today. “He looks good,” Willie Randolph said. “It’s good to see him.”

    UPDATE: Moises Alou said he’ll be ready to be activated Friday in Arizona. He said there’s no fracture of his right ankle."

    5:09 PM

     
    Blogger Sidd Finch said...

    Don't worry, something else will break on Moises sooner or later.

    5:24 PM

     
    Anonymous tc said...

    Sidd, I wonder what the Vegas odds makers are capping the next Alou injury at. +/- 6 games?

    Delgado got a pretty loud cheer during his first at bat, so that story can be put to bed.

    Ossy, I am going to have to say I'm drinking the AZ Kool-Aid.

    Just glancing at their pitching, Webb is untouchable thus far, and Haren has and will continue to put in a bunch of quality starts.

    I am a big fan of Micah Owings, partly because he can hit 500 foot homers on a regular basis, and partly because he is GOOD.

    They'll struggle at the bottom of the rotation like anyone else. But if Randy can show he's not 100% done and they get Scherzer some starts down there, that's more than solid (think Lincecum!)

    Maybe I'm just a fan of the young guys, but Young, Upton, Reynolds, Drew, and Jackson bring it every day.

    Of course, they're not gonna go 20-7 every month, but with the West in shambles ... they're going to run away with it so long as they stay healthy and the young guys keep doing what they do.

    I wish the Mets had Byrnes. He's a guy that this team desperately needs in that he isn't afraid to speak up and he plays his ASS off every day. His intangibles more than justify his pay.

    7:55 PM

     
    Anonymous benny said...

    Moises Alou, Brian Schneider, and Matt Wise all potentially coming back this weekend.
    That means bye bye Gustavo Molina, and a mstery person. Sosa?
    Can Heilman be optioned down? Does he have any of them left?

    1:04 PM

     

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