Picking Up the Pieces
The empty feeling hasn’t subsided for many Mets fans. It’s hard watching the Phillies and their scumbag fans enjoying playoff baseball.
It’s even harder to watch when you hear about potential trades that make little to no sense at all. The proposed trade of Beltran for Cano, Versa, Kennedy, and a minor leaguer is plain old retarded.
Nobody is untradeable in my eyes, but it would take an amazing package to convince me to that the Mets should make a trade involving Beltran. Beltran is an invaluable player because of his skill set. I can’t think of a comparable player who can man his position/production or of a package that can offset his loss while improving the team. The fact that Cano and the rest of that bunch is included just baffles me.
Robinson Cano is like having Carlos Delgado at 2nd base. He is a lazy defender and streaky. Ian Kennedy is still living off three starts and sounds like a Tom Glavine in the making. Veras is intriguing and is a great third player needed in a deal. The problem with that is the first two players blow.
The only way this trade makes sense is in the Wilpon’s pockets. It saves a ton of money spent on a player older than 30.
This trade would give Omar Minaya some payroll flexibility, but that isn’t always a good thing. If Omar can improve other parts of the with the money saved, he’d still have to plug in someone in centerfield.
Last year, the Tori Hunter signed a 5 year contract worth $90 million. That’s a big number for a guy who I don’t feel is in the same league as Carlos Beltran. Anyone who can provide similar output is going to cost big bucks and make Beltran’s paycheck seem like a bargain this year.
I can go days as to why this trade shouldn’t be made. That’s not saying Beltran can’t be traded. Omar and management need to realize that Beltran is the goods and making a trade for the sake of making a trade is the wrong move. Trade him only if you feel that will improve the team. Cano and Kennedy will not improve the team unless they are part of some grander scheme.
posted by ossy at 10:29 PM
45 Comments:
This wasn't a legit trade. The entire thing started because someone claimed that the Mets were taking calls about Beltran (which is something just above "being aware that Beltran is on your team" on the handy-dandy rumor mill translator). And you are right, it would be monumentally stupid. I suppose a more reasonable trade would be center around someone like Colby Rasmus, rather than two tier 2 quality prospects from the Yankees.
11:42 PM
One thing I think people should remember and consider are the Japanese free agents. I think we all forgot about those!
To remind everyone, Koji Uehara is FINALLY a free agent and is niiiice. I would want/love the Mets to go after him. His control is tip top.
The other available tarter is Kenshin Kawakimi, everything I've read from all the NBP sites say he's going to be really good and probably the best bet between him and Uehara but I still like Uehara better from the very few video clips available online.
And finally there's Hitoki Iwase, the lefty reliever I wanted last year is a free agent this year again. I want him as well, at the very least he'd be a lefty specialist.
I hate the Phillies so much. Like alot.
Oh and the Rays... I <3 them!
The thing about Beltran is his mix of speed, defense, and hitting is matched by only one more individual, Grady Sizemore. Hence, Carlos Beltran is irreplaceable.
1:14 AM
The joys of the rumor mill.
Benny, that Red Sox-Rays game from the other night was awesome. It was like Pedroia and Youkilis vs. Longoria and Upton. Though it's disappointing to not be in the playoffs, it is fun to watch the Rays go out there and put up a crazy win vs. the defending champs. And Cliff Floyd hit a home run for good measure, and he's always been a good guy in my book.
The Japanese market is always so hit or miss, I feel. On the one hand, I think there are definite gems (see: Ichiro and Hideki, obviously, & Okajima) but on the other hand there are the Kaz Matsuis and Fukudomes of the world that make you curious if advanced Japanese scouts have any clue as to what the fuck they are talking about.
If Yu Darvish was posted on the other hand, I would open the Citi Field vault.
This offseason has the potential to be decent -- we drop deads bullpen weight/Castillo, sign a moderate #2-#3 starter, ORLANDO HUDSON (A MUST!), maybe make a splash with a RF or LF signing (bye, Church) & rehaul the 7-9th inning guys.
Or ... it can be a straight up debacle full of bad signings and overpaid contract guys because Fred and Omar really see they have no other choice.
In my opinion, as much as he is a huge douche, I can't help but think of our lineup with Manny in it. He rakes. Not for nothing, I'll take him fucking around in RF and saying all sorts of crazy shit to the media after he just smoked a blunt if our lineup can resemble a 1-5 of Reyes, Hudson, Wright, Manny, Beltran.
Notice no Delgado, because I feel they pick up his option then trade his ass for an outfielder or bullpen arm/prospect. In a perfect world, as soon as Castillo can be moved for ANYTHING, they jump on Orlando Hudson for 2b, move Delgado for a 'pen arm, and Dan Murphy is playing 1b next year.
10:45 AM
grady sizemore is a comparison to beltran. too bad the only way to get a guy like that is by trading a cy young caliber pitcher.
i'm so afraid of import players. after seeing so many of them crash and burn, i am hesitant to invest large sums of money into them.
10:48 AM
i agree with TC on delgado. i would trade him to the yankees for a middling prospect or a bullpen arm.
i would like to see orlando hudson playing 2b for the mets. when castillo was reupped last year, i was sad bc i felt it eliminated hudson in 2009.
11:00 AM
I love Mannys bat but I think signing him would be a repeat of what we've seen with Delgado, Glavine, Alou, Castillo, Pedro, Duque, LoDuca and all the other older players the Mets have brought in. Yeah we might get a couple of productive years out of him but hes 37, despite what he did this year this is the back side of his career. I'd rather not watch his decline as hes getting paid huge dollars from the Mets. I'm sick of watching big name, overpaid, past their prime players.
11:34 AM
peavy is available.
omar must kick tires on that. fernando martinez, niese, murphy?
3:18 PM
Ian Kennedy is still living off three starts and sounds like a Tom Glavine in the making
Ian Kennedy doesn't even deserve to lick the ball sweat off of Tom Glavine's jock. We all know what Tom was as a Met, and we all certainly remember that final game against the Fish. But Glavine has had a brilliant career, was one hell of a pitcher for many years, and is a lock for the HOF.
As for the Phils... fuck them. Fuck their fans and fuck that filthy city. I am soooooo rooting for the Rays. I'm certainly not locked in on postseason baseball now that it's hockey season, but I am doing my best to watch those games. They did a terrific job in splitting the first two, and even though they have to face Lester in game three, I have a great deal of confidence in their ability to fight off the Sox.
Hopefully the Phils don't gt to the WS. But if they do... lord help all Mets fans.
They must lose. They simply MUST lose.
4:09 PM
Uehara, Kawakimi and Iwase don't require posting fees. They're jsut straight up free agents. They'll probabably cost as much as Kuroda did. About 7 million for 3 years or so.
7:59 PM
The young yankee starters remind me of the 90s when we touted pulsipher, isringhausen and some other yahoo. lets give Stand Pat Gillick his due, he got Brad Lidge and that trade alone landed us out of the playoffs. Offensively we are fine , the thing that needs to be done is that someplayers need a brain transplant and think about situational hitting.
A trade i would recommend is Dylan Owens,Bowman and Evans to Seattle for JJ Putz
8:20 PM
Well with Uehara he has pitched against MLB talent in both the World Baseball Classic and during those MLB All Star visits to Japan.
I don't feel like looking up how he did fause I'm ready to call it a night but he was successful if I'm not mistaken.
The other two well yeah... you go me on that, those two have no experience whatsover. But Iwase is a reliever so its not a big deal.
1:29 AM
I’m not sure who would be interested in trading for Delgado. He would basically be a one year rental. At his age it makes no sense to sign him to a multiyear contract. I can’t see the Yankees trading for him since they have a number of Delgado types coming off the books and Cashman has shown he is not inclined to go after someone diametrically opposite to the direction he is trying to push the team in. I’m in favor of keeping Delgado for 2009. My reasons are that I don’t have enough of a sample size for an accurate read on Murphy and Delgado plays hard for Jerry and that, coupled with it being his walk year, could give the Mets results similar to the 2nd half of 2008.
People have been discussing the number of holes they believe the Mets have to fill. But just like a woman the Mets have one primary hole and it destroyed the 2008 season. The bullpen must be addressed and it must be done without significantly weakening other parts of the team.
4:18 AM
I agree 100% w/ mookie:
The bullpen must be addressed and it must be done without significantly weakening other parts of the team.
trading Delgado could be a mistake, trading him to the Bronx would be a travesty.
11:30 AM
Mook, outrageous comment with, "But just like a woman the Mets have one primary hole and it destroyed the 2008 season." Almost lost my coffee.
In trading Delgado, the Mets would clearly need to attached a bullpen arm -- with Heilman being the likely man out based on his salary figures in comparison to Schoeneweis. While I like Aaron and feel he has stuff to offer, a change if scenery may not be the worst thing for him, and your return would be increased because you're not just trading an aging 1b in his walk year.
I really don't see anyone on the Yanks whom Delgado would bring back that can be a viable addition, unless you can squeeze a decent prospect back. I was thinking more along the lines of the Blue Jays or Tigers as possible trade partners.
Aside from Krod and Fuentes, the reliever market is pretty shitty. Affeldt would be a nice addition. As would Darren Oliver or Damaso Marte, but they're Type A free agents, and I wouldn't give up a draft pick for either of them -- especially a long-man out of the pen when we potentially have three already (Stokes, Nelly Figs, Vargas?)
AL reliever FA's: Type A -- Francisco Rodriguez, Damaso Marte, Darren Oliver. Type B -- Jamey Wright, Dennys Reyes, Alan Embree, Trever Miller. Yikes.
If I had to give a top-5 most wanted list for the 6-8th inning slots of our 'pen, it'd be this:
1) Affeldt
2) Juan Cruz
3) Beimel / Marte (tie)
4) Oliver
5) Howry
Closers:
1) Trade -- Putz, BJ Ryan, Huston Street all names out there
2) Fuentes
3) K-Rod
4) Lyon / Guardado / Gagne
I wouldn;t be shocked if Omar and Co. went after a retread guy like Brandon Lyon, or Guradado, or even a Gagne to piece the pen together. But I'd be shocked if they didn't go hard after Fuentes and use K-Rod as leverage.
12:14 PM
this team has more than one hole.
1st base is a black hole right now. delgado must go. i wouldnt mind seeing him in a trade for even a middling reliever or 5th starter. he can be replaced quite handily with mark teixeira.
the rotation needs more innings. having a top heavy rotation is good for the playoffs, but the mets need to get there.
the bullpen also needs a top of the line closer to settle down its psyche.
left field and 2nd base are also problems.
1:41 PM
Jesus, no Gagne. PLEASE no Gagne. That would be a disaster. Also, don't give $60-75 mil to Krod. No thanks. Not buying what they're selling. I don't believe that guy lasts with his mechanics. Especially after he gets paid.
I think Omar can get a good return on Delgado. I'm not sold on Delgado and I think it would be good to shake things up with a major player. I don't want to give up Beltran, Reyes, Wright. It's great Delgado had that slamming second half. Sell high! There are plenty of AL teams that would like a reasonably priced power hitting veteran who just came off a 38hr/110+ rbi season at Shea in the NL. I like Daniel Murphy. Time to give another young guy a shot. What we have hasn't been working.
I like the Castillo for Eric Byrnes trade as well to fill up the LF spot if Murphy goes to 1st. Addition by subtraction right there. Then sign Hudson at 2B.
Then you're looking at Murphy, Hudson, Reyes, Wright infield. Solid and young. Give me Byrnes/Beltran in outfield with hopefully bigger bat in RF.
Bullpen needs to be completely blown up. Gross. I don't ever want to see one name from that bullpen (outside of Joe Smith) again with a Met uniform on.
1:58 PM
The day after the last day of the season I wrote on a piece of paper to my coworkers the only names I wanted to see on the team next year, it was as follows:
David Wright, Jose Reyes, Carlos Beltran, Johan, John Maine, Joe Smith, Mike Pelfrey, and Daniel Murphy.
Seriously, everyone else can go. Everyone else can be released, traded, non-tendered, or not resigned.
Gagne's fastball is just flat. FLAT! Like a Schoenweiss fastball! He'd be a righty version of Schoenweiss only with prior success.
And Guardado just sucks.
7:51 PM
It isn't that I necessarily want a Gagne or a Guardado, but the reality is the scrap heap can strike gold sometimes. And by no means am I suggesting that is possile or probable with either of those guys (why I put them as a dead last resort on my list). But I do think guys coming off bad years need at least a look.
Point in case, the Rays (Percival) and Phillies (Lidge), both of whom were "done.". That said, I'd prefer a guy like Street, Corpas, Lyon, or Gregg before ever signing a Gagne. I'd even prefer going with someone internally -- Parnell? Joe Smith? -- long before either of them.
Gagne and Everyday Eddie would have fans burning down Citi. But all options must be exhausted so I don't need to watch Schoeneweis ever again.
10:26 AM
Percival retired and came back magically, dunno how to judge that one.
Brad Lidge still had the naaaaaasty stuff he just had something wrong with him mentally.
Daniel Murphy seems like a Billy Beane kind of guy, I wouldn't be surprised if Huston Street gets traded to the Mets for a package consisting of Muphy and others.
I actually like Kevin Gregg.
5:55 PM
Dodgers suck.
8:53 AM
Rays suck.
12:35 AM
If the humiliation and shame of watching the Phillies take the division two years in a row from them and seeing them get farther than the 2006 Mets team, doesn't get them fired up in 2009 to do something about it, then nothing will.
Bu then again I thought blowing a 7 game lead with 17 to play after 2007 would have made them "battle-tested" this past year down the stretch.
I guess these are the "New Mets" that Beltran was talking about when he signed a few years ago.
(Yes. I am pissed at seeing the Phils in the WS)
8:27 AM
Mark my words. Forget about the stupidity of signing Omar for 4 years while the season had yet to play itself out.
If the Mets fail to win the division (or worse yet, lose to the Phillies down the stretch again) or fail to make the post-season in 2009, Omar has to be fired.
I know with a new contract that might seem ridiculous, but the Wilpons are seriously gambling on 2009 as the year that the Mets HAVE to get to the post-season and make noise, not just show up in the playoffs. If the gambles doesn't pay off, they must cut ties. I am not sure if the fan base can withstand the Mets losing the division to the Phillies again down the stretch. The Wilpons and the Mets organization is dangerously close to creating a huge rift with the fans that could leave a bad taste in our mouths for along time.
That's why from a financial standpoint, signing Omar for 4 years given the situation with the team the last two season, was beyond stupid. A 2 year deal would have been more prudent.
8:37 AM
They wouldn't do it for one reason:
They going to make soooooo much money its not even funny. Sure they're a team but the goal for the Wilpons from a business standpoint is to make a shit load of money, which they will. That will be a success for them and no matter what happens will stay atleast past 2009.
1:17 PM
I'll take Beltran's "New Mets" over the old last place, bottom feeding team that they were before Omar got here.
4:38 PM
I'll take Beltran's "New Mets" over the old last place, bottom feeding team that they were before Omar got here.
4:38 PM
I'll take Beltran's "New Mets" over the old last place, bottom feeding team that they were before Omar got here.
4:39 PM
One more time, Tony, for good luck!
4:58 PM
odd prediction time:
I think Omar Minaya will trade for Julio Lugo to play 2nd base. Just a hunch.
7:15 PM
Hmmm ...
.260 Average? Check
1 home run? Check
20 RBI? Check
"His defense is unsteady, but he is one of those players who will make several spectacular plays in a row, then boot a routine play. Most of his troubles come from erratic throws that usually are caused by fundamental mistakes."
Sounds like Julio Lugo is Luis Castillo minus the 4 year, $20mm contract. Wouldn't shock me one bit. You know how Omar loves his light-hitting, shitty-fielding, second basemen!
10:48 PM
MABEL?
9:39 AM
Hmm, outside the box alert:
With the Dodgers quite possibly declining Brad Penny's 9 million option for 2009. And how about adding him to the bullpen?
The problem with Penny is of course he's had alot of question marks in regards to his shoulder.
I was thinking have Penny come in throw as hard a she did during the all star a couple of years ago and I think he'd be pretty good.
The only other things are he might want remain a starter but I think its certainly something to consider.
7:12 PM
So the 2009 coaching staff was announced, and Oberkfell is nowhere to be seen:
"Guy Conti, the club's bullpen coach for the past four years, third base coach Luis Aguayo and first base coach Ken Oberkfell will be reassigned within the organization. The first-base coaching position is yet to be filled."
First the guy gets banished to the first base coaching position. Now he gets booted to the curb entirely, and instead is "reassigned within the organization".
Now that's a fine how-do-you-do for a job VERY WELL DONE as manager within their farm systems.
Ken, do yourself a favor and get as far away from this pathetic organization as you possibly can! RUN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
5:40 PM
I am sure Mike will not be happy to see his boy kicked to the curb.
And now ladies and gentlemen, coaching third base and sporting the sweetest name in baseball ... Standing 5'10 and pushing 265lbs ... Everyone's favorite ex-Montreal Expo ... Razor Shines!
6:23 PM
I'm naming my next kid Razor Shines. Doesn't matter that my last name isn't Shines. The name rocks and my decision has been made.
Final.
10:44 PM
Razor Shines………just add an apostrophe and you have an incomplete sentence.
Razor Shines’………..
12:35 PM
Funny. The Phils won the WS and yet I'm still here.
I really thought the world would end following such a tragic event.
10:29 PM
I hope this gives Omar an incentive to work a little harder to put together a cast of role-players to compliment the team's core.
As much as they are all cocksuckers, Werth, Victorino, Dobbs, Ruiz, and a bunch of old re-treads (aside from Lidge) in the bullpen just won a World Series.
Things will be troubling if the best name we add to the team this offseason is Razor Shines.
10:36 PM
Well tc, at the very least he adds to our street cred.
Nothin more gangsta than a guy named Razor.
11:24 PM
wouldnt it be hot if we had razor ramon as our first base coach?
12:23 PM
I'm all for that. Then he could clothesline Victorino as he's running down the first base line.
2:22 PM
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