A blog dedicated to the New York Mets with some other baseball thrown in.

Thursday, December 27, 2007

HOF '08

The snooze-fest continues this off-season but the quasi big news item of the day is the Hall of Fame as ballots are being sent in for the mid-summer induction and this is a very boring class if you ask me. Yes, Raines should get in and Gossage should get in with Blyleven missing again and Trammell missing out again. However, are any of these guys players to get all that excited about? I love Raines who is Rickey Henderson-lite, which is not an insult.

Bill James said that if you cut Henderson in half, you would have two Hall of Famers and Raines is certainly worth more than half of Rickey and a welcome addition to the Hall of Fame, though he will not get in on the first ballot because you know...they have to wait for a player of his ilk since he cannot possible be a first ballot Hall of Famer. If he is a Hall of Famer, who cares? Vote the guy in.

The mild debate of the day would be whether or not Jim Rice gets in. Neyer puts together a nice piece on why he should not be voted in. It is hard to not agree with him because if you have to start pointing to unquantifiable stats as to reasons he should be inducted, he probably should not be.

Actually, I don't believe the Morris Test even applies to Rice, because I don't believe he has two prime Hall of Fame credentials. Nobody cites his 382 career homers, because 382 is paltry for a player whose best-known attribute was power. He wasn't a "dominant power hitter" (as Shaughnessy says); he did lead the American League in home runs three times, but finished in the top five in his league only twice more. Mike Schmidt led the National League in home runs eight times. That's dominant. Yes, Rice hit 46 homers in a season. This was not an exceptional figure in his time. The year before Rice hit 46, George Foster hit 52. The year after Rice hit 46, Dave Kingman hit 48. Rice never hit as many as 40 home runs in another season.

Nobody cites his other career stats, because by the standards of Hall of Fame outfielders they're nothing special.

Turns out Rice has one credential: As Shaughnessy and so many others have said over the years, he was "the most feared hitter of his day" ... but was he, really? I'm still waiting for someone, anybody.

Shaughnessy cites intentional walks: "Managers thought about intentionally walking him when he came to the plate with the bases loaded." Well, that's an interesting bit of untestable trivia, but for the moment let's ignore all those imaginary intentional walks and talk about the real ones. Because yes, a great number of intentional walks would suggest that a player really was feared.

Overall I think the Hall of Fame is watered down and many of us already do not care what happens in relation to the Hall of Fame. However, when it comes around again, I cannot help but get mildly interested and the absence of any 'wow' names is just lessening my already waning interest. This entire process would be more exciting if changes were made. Changes like getting more internet writers and stat-heads involved which would certainly add a lot more credibility to Hall of Fame by getting a fresh perspective, but we all know we are a long ways away from that.

* * *

  • Mulvey is glad to still be around and it has to be a complement to be in every trade rumor while Pelfrey and Humber are left out. He has become the most desirable Met pitching prospect with Guerra maybe being too much of a question mark being so young.

  • So the Mets might still be in it? Of course not many people care about any news concerning Santana, but the fact is the Twins might just feel better off dealing him now than waiting for the deadline, when they most assuredly would not get as much back. Also, if they feel they are getting two or three first round/sandwich round talents then it behooves them to make a deal despite the public backlash because they will make out better than the draft most likely.

    Now the Yankees are making noise about not even parting with Hughes and you have a dried up market....not that I believe the Yankees at all, but if they truly wanted him, a deal would have been done. Rest assured Omar is still working hard at getting something done.

  • Guitar Hero kicks ass.

  • I've been listening to Battle and Chuck Ragan a lot lately. Battle is a English band that I would classify as indie/pop. They are really good and I highly recommend them if you are into Block Party, The Kooks, etc.

    As for Chuck Ragan, he is from Hot Water Music and put out a folk album which is spectacular. It has a hint of old school punk which certainly gives his folk a bit more of an edge and great for children of all ages.

  • This will be the last post until 2008 so have a great fucking New Year and thanks for coming by and making the '07 baseball season immeasurably more interesting.

    As for my New Year's resolution, I will no longer assume Omar knows what he is doing.

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    Anonymous benny blanco from da bronx said...

    Everytime I talk about the Hall of fame I always have to mention the same thing and that's about how the Hall of fame should be about guys that absolutely dominated. You should think "Hall of Famer" as soon as you think of them and should never have to make an argument for them to be there.
    And out of all the names it should be Goose Gossage and Tim Raines.
    Although the Hall of Fame is FINALLY getting to players that I actually saw play with my own two eyes, Goose should get in because the man was just DOMINANT! And you hear the stories people tell about him and he was just amazing. All opposing hitters deffinitly feared facing him.
    And Time Raines, just look at the numbers, he made an impact. Too bad I onyl caught him in the end of his career.

    THe thing that kills me about the Hall of Fame is that alot of these writers are like old, crusty, and retired, and havn't seen a basebal lgame in ages. Now that is bullshit.

    Rock Band kicks ass as long you have a couple of adult beverages in you.

    2:51 PM

    Anonymous benny blanco from da bronx said...

    I read that Mulvey article and as soon as I saw that Willie Randolph quote I just... sank. My immediate reaction was "ugh". I fuckin' hate him soo much.

    3:04 PM

    Blogger mr. met said...

    Gossage and Raines should be in no question.

    The other guys are hard to get all that worked up over and even the no brainers are not all that exciting.

    But yes, it is getting to be a more interesting time for us since they were players we grew up being familiar with. I have a some years on you, but it was a not all that interesting for me for a while, but now that Ripken, Raines, Gwynn, McGwire (shouldn't get in), etc. are the ones up it is getting more interesting.

    I second your thoughts on Willie man. What can you do?

    3:08 PM

    Blogger AE said...

    1. guitar hero is totally awesome. i thought it would suck - i am one of the converted. however, i still won't play ddr. ever.

    2. jim rice was an awesome player. however, he is not a hof'er. 4 out of his top 10 comps (baseball-reference) are in the hall and they all have higher ops+ and warp3 stats than him. by virtue of that alone, i don't think rice's numbers hold the weight to get into the hall. his mvp voting record is impressive though.

    to me, jim rice is an earlier version of gary sheffield (as a player, i wont get into personality). sheffield is one of the on the cusp guys and i don't think he's a hof'er either although he's a guy i wouldn't ever want to face if i was pitching. he's as close to a hof'er as can be without being one.

    3. it'd be nice to see humber/pelfrey turn into this year's maine/perez. one can only ask for too much....

    4:23 PM

    Blogger mr. met said...

    I could not understand how it could be good either, but I am a convert as well. I couldn't stop playing it.

    Sheffield is a borderline Hall of Famer, but the steroid mess probably knocks him out because he is a borderline guy. His attitude won't help him either.

    In regards to your #3, that is not crazy at all. However, given the recent tendencies of this organization, that will nearly be impossible.

    4:58 PM

    Anonymous Orangeandblueblood said...

    The HOF class is not real exciting but I will say this about Rice. I went to a bunch of Yankee-Red Sox games growing up (my Dad was a Yankee fan) and Rice was a great hitter. I was suprised he only has 382 HRs. I do think he comes up short for the HOF.
    The Mets not signing a free agent pitcher is a good thing. Outside of Colon I am convinced going with the existing staff and Humber and Pelfrey is an acceptable option. Hernandez or Garcia for 1 year is OK but anything beyond one year with a club option for the remaining FA pitchers is crazy. The trade market is out of control so lets hope Sanchez is effective and healthy and the pen can be a strength. Maybe more focus should be placed on resigning Perez now so next year we have some stability. I no longer trust in Omar either. He destroys his young players trade value by rushing them and then doesn't give them a legit shot at the ML level before trading them. Not the way to build a long term organization. Have a great New Year.

    9:53 PM

    Anonymous ossy said...

    of everyone out there, i think blylevin and gossage(despite being a yankee) should be in

    i trust omar. he made some dumb trades but what GM hasnt? he kinda was handcuffed in some of them (bell/milledge) and was trying to sell high (owens/lidstrom) in a hope to catch a deal (maine)

    2:03 AM

    Blogger Itsmetsforme said...

    Until Keith Hernandez is inducted, the hall of fame doesn't interest me too much. Remember, he did much of what he did on performance degrading drugs.

    Rice was pretty surly to reporters wasn't he? i wonder what role that plays in his being inducted by the "objective" voters.

    Omar is going to have to land Santa at a reasonable price to even begin to remove the taint of the milledge blunder for me.

    Happy new year.

    10:25 AM

    Blogger Anthony said...

    Thanks for the tips on tunes Mike. I've heard good stuff about Battle. Will have to look into Chuck Ragan. Sounds interesting.

    Some fresh stuff I would recommend that you may be into if you're not already familiar.

    Albert Hammond Jr...guitar player from The Strokes. Looks like he kept all his good songs for himself. The cd is called Yours to Keep.

    Kings of Leon. My favorite record of the year. Total rock.

    You probably are already into Arcade Fire. Last release is great.

    Twilight Singers, Band of Horses (really good), Thievery Corporation (every single person I've ever turn this on to has thanked me), Malajube (badass french/canadian band).

    Radiohead, Ryan Adams and Wilco also all put out unbelievable new music this year.

    Happy new year. Here's to the Mets erasing the 07 debacle. I believe it was 2 x 4 who said here "it's difficult to be a Mets fan". That has to be the statement of the year right now.

    2:28 PM

    Anonymous Anonymous said...

    I remember Rice but would say no to having him in the hall. Dangerous hitter but there are a lot of hitters with similar stats. Are we going to let in Ellis Burks and Albert Belle? No. That's not even mentioning Juan Gonzalez and Gary Sheffield, both of whom I feel are superior to Rice. I'd rather have the Crime Dog in the hall before Rice. But we'll have to wait a little on these names.

    Dick Allen where are you?


    2:44 AM

    Anonymous Anonymous said...

    Maybe we can make a trade. I only wish...then we can put that blackeye behind us! -Will


    8:34 PM

    Anonymous Two-By-Four said...

    Happy New Year Everyone.

    Impacto Deportivo reports that the Royals are close to signing Colon. This year is starting to resemble last year’s offseason. The Mets supposedly coming close to signing or trading for the better player’s available but ending with very little to show. In the meantime not going after the lower or average player who they perceive as demanding too much for the quality received. Yet these lower echelon players would fill a necessary role on this team and they are worth what the market will bear. As last year I suspect Omar will sign a group of Lawrence and Park type players and basically throw shit against the wall. If you look at the Mets off-season’s over the past few years from a financial pov (if you allow for the increase in salaries) they have followed a pattern set by the Fred Wilpon since the early 1990’s. However, because of Omar they have put a better product on the field.

    Personally I would prefer the Mets to sign the Meche’s and Lilly’s of the world even if they are demanding more than the Mets feel they are worth. With a club as competitive as the Mets a couple of these type guys can make a positive difference. I am afraid of the fragility of trading away your farm for a pitcher when your farm system is thin. People keep pontificating about the inherent danger in depending on prospects but generally ignore the dangers of trading a veritable cornucopia of your best prospects for one pitcher, albeit the best one in baseball. Suppose that pitcher is injured or worse yet blows his arm out. Where does that leave you and the future of the franchise? Over a long season having depth is as important as any other issue. And baseball has a way of exposing weaknesses.

    Over at SI John Donovan rates the best and worst of the off-season to this date. He is not impressed with the Mets endeavor.

    1:03 AM

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