A blog dedicated to the New York Mets with some other baseball thrown in.

Tuesday, December 04, 2007

Funny Ha Ha / Winter Meeting Madness

Yet another instant classic. Back to some baseball...

But if the Red Sox wind up sweeping Santana out from under them -- and adding him to a rotation that already includes Josh Beckett, Curt Schilling and Daisuke Matsuzaka -- it will be fascinating to see if the Yankees feel the need to respond by reeling in another ace of their own.

"If the Red Sox get Santana," said an executive of one NL team that's grateful to be in the other league, "they might be the best team in the history of the frigging universe."


Nothing wrong with raising the bar a bit even if you did just win the World Series and it is safe to assume that landing Johan would be raising the bar.

The two deals on the table are John Lester, Coco Crisp, Jed Lowrie, and Justin Masterson or another player versus Jocoby Ellsbury, Justin Masterson, and Jed Lowrie. Decisions...decisions. For me, the best thing for the Twins to do would be to take deal number one.

I like Ellsbury, but he has seem to taken on a life of his own in terms of prospect status and while he is a good centerfield prospect, he is not worth that much. He is 24 and has not showed an ounce of power in a pretty big sample size in the minors. He is going to be a solid player, but I actually think the first package gives them more impact players. The Red Sox would probably be better off with them taking deal number two and keeping pitching depth in their system or using Lester in another trade.

Lester slots into the rotation right away and has front end potential and Jed Lowrie could be an offensive star in the bigs while Masterson gives them decent arm in their system. Also, let us not forget that Crisp was pretty good in 2004 and 2005 for the Indians and might have a nice bounceback year outside of Boston and actually outplay Ellsbury over the next three seasons. People have soured on him a lot, but the fact is he is still young and still talented and could very well revert back to form. Afterall, he would not be the first guy that could not cut it in Boston (see Edgar Renteria, Julio Lugo, Matt Clement).

It is hard to envision Santana leaving and not bringing back a starting pitcher being they just gave up two, but they seem to like Ellsbury that much. No matter who they end up getting from the Sox, at least he is not a Yankee. With the Mets boldly dishing off a top tier talent for Church and Schneider, the Yankees landing the world's best pitcher would just be insult to injury.

* * *

  • The news item of the day has to be Cabrera and Willis to Los Tigres. Unreal. The Marlins get Andrew Miller, Cameron Maybin, Mike Rabelo, and three pitchers. From Gammo:

    Here are the three pitching prospects the Tigers are sending to the Marlins in the Cabrera-Willis deal: right-handers Eulogio De la Cruz (3.62 ERA in the minors with a blazing fastball), Dallas Trahern (13-6 between Double-A Erie and Triple-A Toledo) and Burke Badenhop (12-6 between Lakeland and Erie).

    Apparently that De La Cruz guy hit triple digits with his fastball. All in all, the Tigers have balls. They made a huge deal and gave up some solid players, but got the second best right handed bat in the game at 24 years old and the resources to keep him around. Also, you have to give it to the Marlins. They made another good deal and truly seem to be a fair trading partner that a lot of small market teams should take notes from. No matter how much it hurts to trade a guy, good deals can be made.

  • I thought the Pettite fiasco was a bit strange. Unless the Yankees knew he would come back all along, it is weird why Andy would make them wait. Sure it is his right to wait, but with the Yankees in a bit of a lurch, Pettite probably affects how they approach their hunt for a starting pitcher and how much they would pay. Sure he is back in time, but he surely made them wait.

  • I like me some Erik Bedard, but let us not get crazy.

    But while Bedard's cost, in terms of dollars, is far less than that of Santana, the Orioles believe Bedard's value, in terms of the talent they should receive in return, is just as high as that of the two-time Cy Young winner from Minnesota -- who is still expected to be traded to either the Yankees or Red Sox in the next day or two, with the winning bidder signing him to a contract extension worth perhaps $150 million.

    Bedard has been impressive the last two years, but he still has not notched 200 innings, his k/9 in 2007 was way above anything else he has ever done, and he is actually older than Johan. Also, if you get Santana, you get him for another six or seven years due to the negotiation window. You have to pay out of your ass for him, but you will retain him.

    With Bedard, he is only under control for two more years and there is no guarantee at all that he would signing with whatever team acquires him. Is he worth the same haul as Johan? Probably not. He obviously has a ton of value, but we will see if McPhail ends up working something out.

    One NL talent evaluator who loves Bedard said, "Bedard is closer in talent to Santana than Haren is to Bedard. In fact, it is not impossible to believe that in a year, we will all think Bedard is better than Santana." An AL executive said, "Here is what impresses me about Bedard, he pitches in the AL East against the Yankees and Red Sox. So, to me, he can pitch anywhere and excel."

    Of course it depends if you think Bedard has turned that corner at age 28 to become an elite pitcher or if you think he had a career year and is likely to regress a bit.

  • The Mets are still interested in Kuroda.

    One AL team official, in previously providing a scouting report to The Post on the 32-year-old Kuroda, classified his fastball as "average to slightly above average." The official also praised Kuroda's forkball, strike-throwing ability and competitiveness. Kuroda will require a multiyear deal.

    This is looking like the better thing to do day by day so the Mets can keep a semblance of a farm system because the asking price for Haren and Bedard are sky high. Also, with the Mets lack of intriguing prospects, it is increasingly unlikely a deal would ever get done. I know the Mets do have some talent, but other teams are just not enthused about them.

  • I wish the Mets liked young players.

    The trade of Quentin — to the Chicago White Sox for a low-level minor league first baseman — does nothing to damage the D-Backs’ chances of trading for a high-end starting pitcher, Byrnes said. The D-Backs’ best trading chip appears to be Double-A outfielder Carlos Gonzalez, whose path to the majors is blocked by Justin Upton. Speedy second baseman Emilio Bonifacio is also drawing interest from other clubs, including Washington.

    I still have faith in Quentin. The White Sox got themselves a nice right fielder who should be able to put up some pretty damn good numbers from day one. It would have been nice if the Mets could have spun a three way as I would of rather had Quentin in right with Milledge heading to Chicago. But alas, the Mets have become infatuated with elder players.

  • Peavy and the Padres are close to agreeing on an extension that will pay Peavy roughly $17 million in 2010, 2011, and 2012. Not a bad deal at all for the Padres.

  • A heinous and yet extremely delicious crime.

  • I think Ted Berg said it best about the Milledge deal. Church might pleasantly surprise. He might outperform Milledge in '08 even, though I think Milledge will probably be better. However, the Mets really did not need to make this move. Schnieder is not all that much better than Estrada when you factor in Estrada should be better offensively and was rather proficient at throwing runners out pre-injury. Then you factor in the money owed to Schneider and this still makes no sense in any context. But the Mets did it and they seriously seem to have issues with giving young guys a shot.

    Just a view from the other side:

    Andrew (London, UK): Jayson, I understand what you're saying, but the fact of the matter is that Milledge's OPS was only 26 points less than that of Church, he's older with less upside, Schneider is AWFUL offensively (.336 SLG), and the Mets already have Estrada and Castro behind the plate. Even if Milledge's value is in decline (which I don't think it is - any outfielder who is as good as he is defensively, with an OPS of almost 800 in just 140 AB at age 22, plus he's cost controlled - has trade value), why not let him play every day for awhile to let him re-establish his value?

    Jayson Stark: (1:26 PM ET ) You make great points. If this were the only move the Mets were going to make this winter, I'd be with you all the way. But Castros isn't an every-day catcher. They obviously didn't think Estrada was what they had in mind. So they have more well-rounded pieces to deal with now, I think. All they had before was outfielders. So they had to make two deals to address their needs, not one. For pure tools, the Nationals got the best player in the trade. But it makes some sense for both sides. Remember, Omar Minaya feels the heat to WIN RIGHT NOW. If he waits around for Milledge to put it together, somebody else will be the GM of that team.


  • The most swellicious quote of the week?

    Otis (Toronto, ON): This is dedication: 1. Start your chat at the office while closing door to office and declaring a "brainstorming session" 2. Continue on the commmute home via blackberry 3. Continue chat on the home computer, taking breaks for smokes and steaks that being said, how close are we to having the Knicks banished to the WNBA?

    Bill Simmons: That a boy, Otis! I like the idea of banishing the Knicks to the WNBA - Renaldo Balkman would be the 10th most attractive player in the league.


  • Runner up for quote of the week?

    "A deadline is a deadline. It was pretty much done as of this morning," Steinbrenner said on Tuesday, according to AP. "He's a fine pitcher, but there's a lot of things that go into this. This isn't fantasy baseball."
  • Labels: , , ,

    59 Comments:

    Anonymous Dep said...

    Los Tigres, wow. now that's what Dep calls a blockbuster.

    If I have to read one more article with other GMs basically laughing at Omar and the mets, my head may explode.

    I dont like baseball at all right now.

    how the hell did the mets become like this laughingstock of the league in the past 2 weeks?

    Omar isnt helping. he does some stupid things.

    That knicks quote at the end was pure gold mike, good stuff

    12:03 AM

     
    Anonymous orangeandblueblood said...

    I don't see the Mets obtaining any starting pitcher better than Perez or Maine at this point. It seems they overrated their trading chips compared to other teams in the hunt for top flight pitching and would have been better pushing for someone like Garza early on. If the Mets offered Milledge and Mulvey or Humber for Garza would it have topped the Delmon Young offer the Rays made? The Mets wouldn't have an ace but with Pedro they would have four #2/#3 type pitchers. A formidable staff. Before anyone gets too excited about Bedard realize that if Pelfrey can improve his BB/9 in 2008 his excellent ground ball/fly ball and low HR/9 tendancies could easily result in an era near 4.5. He would have a sinking 95 mph fastball and stats very similar to Bedard's at the same age. I was hoping for a Pedro, Perez, Maine, Garza, Pelfrey rotation but Omar went for glory and it appears he is already back pedalling. Now they will likely bring in a #4 or #5 type guy or roll the dice with an import. Maybe take a shot on Colon. Couple the pitching market miss play with the Nationals deal and I no longer view Omar as anything special as a GM. I hope he doesn't empty the farm system on a short sighted move.

    12:08 AM

     
    Blogger mr. met said...

    Omar is certainly not endearing himself to many these days. Although, I cannot help but think the Mets have gotten blackballed a bit. It is a dark day when Milledge is only worth Church and Schneider.

    I still like the Mets in '08, but a little less. I think they are going to be in for a fight all year and probably lose their favorite tag.

    I foresee a lot of drunk and belligerent tirades at the stadium this year for me.

    12:08 AM

     
    Blogger mr. met said...

    Before anyone gets too excited about Bedard realize that if Pelfrey can improve his BB/9 in 2008 his excellent ground ball/fly ball and low HR/9 tendancies could easily result in an era near 4.5.

    Is a 4.5 ERA what we are relegated to be excited about these days? Ouch.

    I think Pelfrey can still be good, but as you said, he needs to cut down on walks and attach hitters more. He just nibbles too much.

    I doubt the Mets package would have beat the Twins package. They did really good in their haul of Young who still has a ton of value. Milledge apparently had none.

    I hope he doesn't empty the farm system on a short sighted move.

    Which is scary to think about. Didn't he preach building from within?

    12:11 AM

     
    Anonymous Dep said...

    the truly dark day is when your GM actually says yes on Milledge for the WeinerSchneiderChurchen.

    12:27 AM

     
    Anonymous Anonymous said...

    'Omar is certainly not endearing himself to many these days.'

    Its going to be HARD to root for this team if they start 10-20 and Reyes is playing with his head up his ass.

    Not 2003 Mets hard, but pretty damn hard.

    Thankfully, we have David Wright. God, how thankful I am to have him as a rock when things seem bleak.

    I can't believe they didn't trade Gomez for Garza. Fuck Minaya. I know the Wilpons had a hand up his ass wrt Milledge, because Omar didn't seem happy, but I blame him for being a gutless yellowbelly.

    'Milledge apparently had none.'

    Then you FUCKING KEEP HIM.

    I heard Heyman compare Matt Kemp to Dave Winfield. I guess that's because their both black.

    Emad

    12:45 AM

     
    Anonymous Two-By-Four said...

    One facet of this off-season has been very successful, at least in the eyes of Fred and Ethel Wilpon. The Mets have upgraded their image by casting aside PLD, Mota and LM. Fred and Ethel Wilpon can once again sleep at night.

    Normally I would urge any GM that allows Jim Bowden to get the best of him to immediately resign his position and change careers. However, it is indeed possible that Omar was forced to unload LM asap and the Nationals deal was the best he good do.

    The low regard for the Mets farm system by other teams may be the ammunition Omar needs to convince Fred and Ethel Wilpon to exceed the slot amounts in the coming draft. Of course with the Mets anything is possible so don’t get your hopes up.

    1:06 AM

     
    Anonymous Anonymous said...

    'Of course with the Mets anything is possible so don’t get your hopes up.'

    Should be difficult... LIVAN IS COMING. HUZZAH.

    Maybe this Japanese guy is Masato Yoshii II.

    WE GOT TO PRAY JUST TO MAKE IT TODAY.

    Emad

    1:24 AM

     
    Anonymous benny blanco from da bronx said...

    "If the Red Sox get Santana," said an executive of one NL team that's grateful to be in the other league, "they might be the best team in the history of the frigging universe."

    I was that NL executive, only I didn't use the word "frigging". Damn censorship!

    Red Sox are balls deep with Johan.
    The Tigers are balls deep with Dontrelle and Miguel Cabrera.
    Those two teams are fucking monsters.
    Then you have the Mets. Fucking embarassing.

    The Marlins have balls the size of earth. Maybin and Miller are berry berry naiiiiiiice!

    Hiroki Kuroda sucks.

    Hank Steinbrenner is a tool.

    The Mets are an embarassing disgrace!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ARGH!

    2:04 AM

     
    Anonymous settle steve said...

    I congratulate the Tigers on 2 fronts... great front office trade and thank you for getting those 2 out of our division.

    2:16 AM

     
    Anonymous Danny said...

    It's a sad, sad day when Emad is forced to quote MC Hammer to help him through this abyss.

    It's definitely not a particularly happy time to be a Mets fan.

    Milledge had value. Minaya did a terrible job of extracting it. The trade cannot be defended in any way. I live in DC and see a lot of Church and Schneider. I like Schneider as a catcher, I really do, and I think his bat is better than what he showed last year. I would have traded Anderson Hernandez and Joe Smith for him or something. Not friggin Milledge while the Mets controlled Estrada.

    Church was pretty badly mishandled by the Nationals. He has a good stick and could definitely surprise people. Or he could put up Shawn Green numbers. That's my biggest problem with this trade. Because of the way that the Nationals handled Church, he is barely more proven than Milledge. It's just crazy.

    But oh well, what's done is done. Any more upgrades will be marginal this off-season.

    7:52 AM

     
    Anonymous Anonymous said...

    Jesus. Do you guys think Omar is just down in Nashville getting a fucking tan?? He's trying to make deals but NO ONE is taking his offer!! NO ONE wants any of the Mets players other than Reyes or Wright. If no one wants what the Mets are offering, then how can he be doing a bad job?!

    You want a front line SP, fine; give up Reyes. OK, Reyes gets traded then the half of you that bitch and moan the fact that he does nothing are satisified, while the OTHER half then bitches and moans that he traded Reyes.

    The. Mets. Do. Not. Have. The. Prospects!! This team can not create them out of thin air.

    And STOP giving me the bullshit Flores, Bannister, Bell, Owens, etc. crap!

    Bell had a bunch of chances in '06, and when he was stinking up the joint you all wanted him out of here. Flores, Oooooo that .244 average is like lighting a fire!! Watch out! If he's so good, why are the Nationals STILL after want another verteran catcher.

    Look. The Mets will not make a deal here in Nashville. I think we all have to settle on the fact that 2 out of Livan Hernandez, Carlos Silva, Freddy Garcia, Bartolo Colon and this Japanese pitcher will probably be on this team.

    It aint pretty, but when the Fish lose Cabrera AND Willis, the Phillies SP staff STILL is not great, and the Braves now have 'stud pitcher' Tom Glavine in their rotation,
    I'm not jumping out of a window, nor am I calling for Omar to be fired.

    - Nokes

    8:07 AM

     
    Anonymous Anonymous said...

    For Mike and all those who are not afraid of Chuck Norris:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDUQW8LUMs8

    Jon from JCNJ

    8:30 AM

     
    Anonymous DG said...

    I'll content myself with Livan Hernandez at this point. He adequately replaces those oh so valuable innings we lost from Tom "Not Devastated" Glavine. I'd almost argue for Silva over Hernandez but Livan ought to benefit from Shea, and man, I like to watch him hit. Think Willie would bat him in front of Schneider? I would, but Willie is too stodgy for that shit.

    What the fuck is wrong with Marty Noble? When he'll spit back this drool about how Church helps balance the Mets lineup as if Lasto would have left the Mets at an offensive disadvantage, then you know, just know that that little disclaimer about MLB not exercising content control over MLB.com is complete and utter bullshit. Gee, I never realized the competitive disadvantage that keeping Milledge would have left us at! Noble used to be a prestigious journalist; now he's just a hack.

    And for those of us who have forgotten, during the Mets top prospects chat at Baseball America, John Manuel said that if Milledge was still eligible to be considered a prospect, he would easily top the Mets top ten list. Yep, I don't care what anyone says, we dumped our top prospect.

    At this point, I do not want to see the Mets trade Gomez because it will be in a deal for A.J. Burnett or some other injury proficient pitcher. I would consider the Gomez, Heilman, Pelfrey deal for Bedard, that is if the Mets chose to pull Humber and go with Mulvey or Pelfrey as the last piece. In that case, you're not necessarily overpaying; it strikes me as fair. But if not, say fuck you to everyone and SHOW THEM that your prospects have value. That means, PLAY THEM for god's sake!

    Congrats to the Tigers for cleaning out their minoe league prospects (excepting Porcello) for Cabrera and Willis. I bet you that only one of those two will justify the trade for the Tigers.

    Maybe they'll pony up in the draft. Maybe. I'll believe it when I see it.

    10:10 AM

     
    Anonymous DG said...

    Oh and I'd still consider Gomez for Snell. Incidentally, if the Indians trade Shoppach to the Pirates in a deal for Bay, then the Mets would have been able to acquire Paulino & Snell in the package I pushed the other day. I will ride Schneider & Church's asses at Shea this summer - if I don't just wash my hands of this team altogether.

    10:15 AM

     
    Blogger mr. met said...

    God, how thankful I am to have him as a rock when things seem bleak.

    I'm picturing you humming some Celine Dion song while thinking about him. But yes, I agree. the true 2007 MVP is a pleasure to have and he'll need to have a hot April to get this team headed in the right direction. If he dissapears from the month of April again and they stumble out of the gate, it could get ugly.

    We do not know that Gomez for Garza would have worked. 10 out of 10 would have probably taken Young over Gomez even with whatever perceived baggage he comes with.

    I 100% agree with the Mets keeping Milledge. The deal makes no sense and it did stink of the Wilpons saying he needs to move.

    I heard Heyman compare Matt Kemp to Dave Winfield.

    I'm going to say yes. You know it's impossible for players of different races to play similarly, right? But Kemp is a beast. He is going to be nasty, nasty, nasty. The Dodgers have a pretty good pitching and I would just keep their goes and make a go of it. Letting their kids play makes them favorites in the NL West for sure.

    2x4...I am confident the Mets will exceed slot during their next draft. Rick Porcello was a steal late and hopefully the Mets similarly get lucky...twice.

    Benny, no love for Kuroda? I at least like him because he has not been proven wrong. I'm giving him the benefit of doubt, but not at 4 years and $12 per year.

    Danny, but isn't MC Hammer a deacon or something? It seems OK to turn to him in dark times. He's a man of GOD!

    Nokes, I think we all understand that (right or wrong) no one likes Omar's prospects. He would deal them, but no one wants them and any deal would need Gomez, F-Mart, Pelfrey, Heilman, etc.... At some point, trading away 40% of your organization is too much. I do not think any particularly thinks Omar is sitting on his ass, but his results in what he has done this off-season have been mixed to say the least. The Mota deal was great, but the Milledge deal was insane.

    Also, I think I've made it abundantly clear that a frontline starter is not necessarily a lynchpin to their season.

    As for Bell, I'll defend him all day. The Mets dropped the ball there and favored retreads rather than giving him a true shot to earn some trust.

    Anyone hear that Maine story?

    10:21 AM

     
    Blogger mr. met said...

    DG...Noble has been a hack for a while. I think he's jaded from having to answer really dumb questions on a weekly basis.

    Fan: "Marty, who don't the Mets just trade Carlos Delgado and Shawn Green for Johan Santana?"

    But if not, say fuck you to everyone and SHOW THEM that your prospects have value. That means, PLAY THEM for god's sake!

    That is a revolutionary idea, but you know the rotation nor bullpen will feature Humber or Pelfrey. No matter what Omar says about him, we know the truth because the Mets would rather go down in flames than give Humber real chance in the bullpen, which is what we say last season. No one could get an out, but no one had an idea to toss Humber or Pelfrey into the bullpen? What's the worst that could have happened?

    Also, Milledge not getting playing time over Green early and then still not having an everday slot for the rest of the season was nuts. That could have truly given Lastings big time value and could have actually you know...added wins.

    As for the Tigers, I think we all know Willis is done. But the Cabrera was worth the two of them together, no? Especially when the Tigers have Granderson and plenty of young arms. Though not as many these days after dishing off a bunch of them, but he Tigers made a solid deal.

    Oh and I'd still consider Gomez for Snell. Incidentally, if the Indians trade Shoppach to the Pirates in a deal for Bay, then the Mets would have been able to acquire Paulino & Snell in the package I pushed the other day. I will ride Schneider & Church's asses at Shea this summer - if I don't just wash my hands of this team altogether.

    I think the Indians deal is dead, no? At this point, I'd do Gomez for Snell, but dealing with these small market teams is damn near impossible. Their asking prices are often just way to high.

    10:29 AM

     
    Blogger sweep said...

    Scott

    Fuck Livan Hernandez and his 3,342 innings pitched every year. I am not interested in another Hernandez stinking up the joint.

    Matt Clement, Colon, Jennings et al are more appealing AND have much higher upside. Livan had like a 6 era last season...Just say Non!

    10:34 AM

     
    Anonymous benny blanco from da bronx said...

    The. Mets. Do. Not. Have. The. Prospects!!

    Nokes, who's to blame!? Certainly not me! The Mets are responsible for not having those prospects. They are VERY VERY top heavy and have had incredibly shitty drafts the past couple of years and have done an INCREDIBLY bad job handeling the guys they DO have.

    10:40 AM

     
    Blogger mr. met said...

    Scott, I do like me some Matt Clement. But I'm am weary because of his arm.

    I would rather have Kuroda or Silva with Freddy Garcia on the 60 day.

    Jennings is interesting, but I think looking at this his pear shaped body all year is going to just get me angry.

    Benny, I would tend to agree and then they just sold one of their more talented ones for no apparent reason. Really though, these guys all had tons af value like Pelfrey and Milledge until they hit the bigs. Pelfrey could not attach hitters and Milledge was jerked around for the most part and should have started 120 games or so. Let's say he hits 14 or 15 homers in 120 games at 22 years old while showing a nice glove when he moved backed to center, the kid would be worth nothing?

    Please. 20 homers with solid defense and under control for a while saves you 90 million on Torii Hunter. The Mets have screwed up a bit and refuse to give anyone a shot. They did give Pelfrey one, but he was an isolated incident.

    10:50 AM

     
    Anonymous Anonymous said...

    Yes. They have had shitty drafts? Why? Because they sign other players Type A Free Agents, thus no 1st Round picks. Pedro, Beltran, Wagner; those picks were gone. Lightning doesnt always strike in the later rounds all the time. That's why this Glavine pick is important. We get TWO picks in the Top, what, 40? 45? Combine that with ours, that's 3!

    It's either Beltran, Pedro and Wagner AND CONTENDING on this team, or whatever picks we gave up in those years and sulking in 4th or 5th place.

    BTW: Mike if you have a second can you see what those draft picks turned into when the Mets signed Pedro, Beltran and Wagner?

    - Nokes

    10:52 AM

     
    Blogger mr. met said...

    I know the Mets missed out Kyle Drabek the Wagner year, so that was a big bust. He has a live arm and fell a lot because he crashed his Hummer or something.

    As for the year before, I do not know off the top of my head. The Astros got a shitty late round third round pick for Beltran and since they have one of the three worst systems, I'm going to assume it was nothing special.

    The Red Sox only got a second round from us since The Mets sucked and had the third overall pick. It looks like the Sox took Jonathan Egan so that's no big loss. Though, that year the Sox hauled. Hansen, Ellsbury, Bowden, Buccholz, and Lowrie. Prior to the second round.

    11:13 AM

     
    Blogger mr. met said...

    Sorry...ninth overall pick when they nabbed Pelfrey. The Mets were bad, but not drafting third bad.

    11:14 AM

     
    Blogger AE said...

    whoa.

    teddy berg gets linked. ted berg is good people. i play pick up baseball with him. anyway, him and i see eye to eye on lastings.

    which is why i will be rooting for the nationals next year...only half kidding...i'll also be rooting for elijah dukes and manny acta...ok now i'm only slightly kidding...

    11:38 AM

     
    Anonymous DG said...

    Must note that the year the Mets took Humber, they were praying, praying that Verlander would pass through the Tigers hands, but hey, the Tigers knew who to pick! Humber was a safe, potentially spectacular pick at #3. It would have been hard to be thinking of Hughes and the sort when your major league rotation sucks as much as it did.

    And let's not deride pear shaped bodies & baseball. I love when a pitcher goes out there looking like an average shlubb and is nothing but steady. One of the great things is that someone like Rick Reuschel, who at 6'3", 235 basically looked like one of those tall uncoordinated computer nerds we would have berated in high school if they weren't hiding in the computer lab, looked like he might die of a cardiac while he fucked with everyone. Nah, pear shapes remind us of how special a sport baseball is. Who needs fucking washboards?

    Supposedly, the Twins have called the Mets and others back in for some new negotiations. One more chance for Omar to grovel.

    I'd take Snell. I'd even take Nady back.

    12:51 PM

     
    Anonymous Anonymous said...

    'I'm picturing you humming some Celine Dion song while thinking about him.'

    Neko Case, FYI.

    'We do not know that Gomez for Garza would have worked.'

    No, because Minaya flatly rejected it.

    'I'm going to say yes. You know it's impossible for players of different races to play similarly, right? But Kemp is a beast. He is going to be nasty, nasty, nasty.'

    Kemp will be very good, but I don't think he'll be a HOFer. I don't think he can control the strike zone like Winfield did. That's a rather critical point most mainstream pundits miss -- so hung up on speed. Please. Kemp would give me infarctions if I had to watch him play defense every day.

    The difference between him and Milledge are negligible. Milledge, higher OBP. Kemp, more power.

    PERCEPTION. BLAH. BLAH. FRICK.

    Emad

    12:52 PM

     
    Blogger sweep said...

    Scott

    I am back to thinking that there are still plenty of options out there for us if we miss the Sanharbed auctions. Snell might be available, Burnett if we want to risk that arm which is currently held on with duck tape or even putting our best pitching prospect into the lineup...ah, Heilman. Why not give him a shot in the rotation then sign another cheap pitching option for the 5th spot and find a good reliever for the pen.

    I bet my left one Heilman pitches his heart out in the first half to prove he belongs in the rotation, tires in the second half and we go to a 6 man rotation. Garia, Clement, Colon would be ideal for a 2nd haf 6man.

    Mike, I liked Clement before he went to Boston. He is a power thrower and if he is ok he could be great in a NL ballpark like shea.

    PS Mike Fransceca (Fat pig from WFAN) has a friggin hot wife! Steaming hot! How the hell did he pull that off? Arranged marriage?

    1:12 PM

     
    Blogger mr. met said...

    ae, pickup baseball? How does one get involved in these pickup baseball games?

    Mr. Berg is solid and writes some solid articles for sure.

    dg...you are right. He did not fall and you cannot fault the Mets for picking Humber. He looked nasty and he looked healthy.

    They also were down to Bruce and Pelfrey. Anyone want Bruce right now? The bottom line is, the Mets picks have not worked out. The Red Sox picks have. Therefore, you can only infer the Mets have been drafting poorly of late.

    I'm not saying I don't like the Wells types out there, but Jennings takes the cake. That pear shaped body is like none I've seen in professional sports.

    Emad, do we know that Garza for Gomez was turned down by Omar? I've only read the TWins liked Gomez, but no deal was actually on the table. If Omar passed that one up, he should be fired.

    Kemp is horrible at defense, and yet people continue to say he is a centerfielder which boggles my feable mind.

    Kemp is way better than Milledge if you ask me, but Milledge is pretty damn good and more so reflects how good I think Kemp will be. Both will be future all stars. However, all this Ellsbury BS has me thinking Milledge > Ellsbury. Milledge's D in center was much smoother than when he is in right and is a far better hitter. Ellsbury steals more and plays much better defense, I give the nod to Lastings. And yes, we just gave him up for nothing.

    1:19 PM

     
    Blogger mr. met said...

    Scott,

    At this point, I'd give Heilman a shot. However, if you give him a shot and then you say he did not make the cut, he might implode and that won't be pretty. However, you would have to wonder at this point if that does not make the most sense. The only problem is, they needed to pick up another reliever anyway and they didn't. Moving him out of the bullpen means the Mets are really, really thin in that area and he is the best set-up man.

    It stands to reason he would hit a wall at about 150 innings, but yes, then Garcia would be ready as would Mulvey.

    Right, but does Clement have any power anymore? Sick slider, mid to low 90's heater, but where is he topping out now?

    Mike is rich. That is how. There really is no mystery to that one.

    1:22 PM

     
    Anonymous Dep said...

    I've never seen one shred of proof for the infamous Gomez/Garza deal that Omar allegedly rejected.

    Keith Law said it was a rumor started by a reporter, nothing more.

    If someone has some evidence, I would love to see it.

    2:30 PM

     
    Anonymous benny said...

    Miledge is also 2 years younger than Ellsbury. In fact, Milledge is younger than most players.

    I remeber that draft, it was between Jay Bruce, Andrew McCuthen, Mike Pelfrey, Cameron Maybin, and Craig Hansen.
    I didn't like Pelfrey then and to be honest not a big fan of him now. I saw all those names before the draft and really wanted Maybin but due to the fact that all the Mets draft is toosly outfielders and all those guys were toolsy outfielders I was not feeling those guys. So I wanted Maybin or Hansen. So yeah, haha, that didn't turn out well. But whatever, Hansen is still nasty.

    2:42 PM

     
    Blogger mr. met said...

    That's is what I believed as well. I think they had true interest in Gomez, but in what context and for who was all speculative. It was assumed a package could have been centered around Gomez, but BJ and Delmon were also of interest to them and would definitely trump Gomez.

    I like Pelfrey back then, but the caveat with him was always going to be his secondary stuff. Two years later, we are talking about the same crap.

    I'd rather have Pelfrey than Hansen though. Hansen looks baked. Ouch.

    3:12 PM

     
    Anonymous Anonymous said...

    Last ditch effort:

    Offer Maine, Pelfrey, Mulvey and Martinez for Santana.

    If that does not bite, then Omar has done all he can do, and then just come back home. That's is the best offer next to adding Reyes.

    Do it.

    - Nokes

    3:22 PM

     
    Blogger AE said...

    mike,

    we had been playing pickup ball (wood bat only - dudes in their 20's-40's) in prospect park in brooklyn every saturday at 10am until it got cold. we have a mailing list that informs people if a game is being played or not. this was the first year and we're not sure what's going to happen during the spring/summer. we're looking into the possibility of getting a permit.

    anyway, let me know if you're interested in getting in - i'll get you on the list. i know brooklyn is a long way from jerz, but for the record, i play organized ball in jersey.

    - ae

    3:55 PM

     
    Blogger Rickey Henderson said...

    Can the Yanks just acquire Victor Zombrano? Please? Pretty please?

    By the way the current Hank Steinbrenner shenanigans reminds Rickey of an old Onion article:

    "Asshole Father Proud of Asshole Son"

    3:56 PM

     
    Blogger mr. met said...

    Nokes....I like your gumption. I'm sure the the Twins would balk at that move, but I think it is a good haul. It certainly leaves us with a lot less depth which is scary, but I guess you can buy depth.

    ae...keep me in the loop. I used to play in a wooden bat league and I am still interested in playing. I would be interested in both the jersey league and the brooklyn pickup games and I havea few people that would be interested as well if you are always in need of getting some heads.

    George should be proud. Although, his desire to hold onto prospects for dear life is in stark contrast to poppa. Any other year, this deal gets done. I cannot believe what they have balked at so far.

    4:18 PM

     
    Anonymous Deolis in '10 said...

    The new rumor of the three team trade with the A's, Mets, and Twins. Go to a 45min meeting and all sorts of lovely stuff happens.

    Johan Santana, Dan Johnson and Bobby Crosby to the Mets, who would part with Jose Reyes, Kevin Mulvey, and Hector Pellot, who would all end up in Oakland, who would send Dan Haren to the Twins

    5:05 PM

     
    Blogger mr. met said...

    That is just nuts. Crazy talk I say. Ridiculous. Under no circumstances should that deal be done. And what does Dan Johnson do for us? Give us a nice backup for Carlos Delgado?

    I know you are only the messenger here, but that is crazy meng.

    5:31 PM

     
    Anonymous Deolis in '10 said...

    Yea, long time reader, just figured I would post it here since no one had mentioned it and see everyones thoughts. The only team that deal makes sense for is the A's, so it would be a crazy trade.

    5:47 PM

     
    Blogger mr. met said...

    Well, thanks for dropping in and reporting.

    It's not horrible from the Mets end, but that is if you think Crosby is worth spit, which many don't. He's a .240 SS with 15 homers at best. He's a bottom of the order guy so the Mets just traded a lot for Johan.

    Then, what does Beane want with Reyes if he is rebuilding? Reyes should be in the Twinkie land where they might actually have a shot at competeing, though an extremely small one with Cleveland and Detroit set to duke it out.

    Reyes for Johan should honestly get it done. I really do not see hwo adding those other players for peripheral pieces makes all that much sense. Then again, the Mets seem desperate to make a splash since everyone is laughing at them.

    5:52 PM

     
    Anonymous kyle said...

    Here's a little something from mlbtraderumors comments that would regain my faith in omar.

    New York Mets acquired pitcher Scott Kazmir and outfielder Rocco Baldelli in exchange for pitchers, Mike Pelfrey and Joe Smith, recently acquired outfielder, Ryan Church, and two minor leaguers

    I'd be a happy man in a world where this was true... too bad that world isnt this one.

    6:32 PM

     
    Anonymous MikeinSpaininLA said...

    If the Angels, who for me, so far, are the real losers of this offseason, don't make a deal, I say we steal some of their young talent. All this team has needed to be the cream of MLB in the past few years is a middle of the order bat, yet somehow they decided to trade away a gold-glove SS and real "glue" guy in Orlando Cabrera to acquire a back of the rotation starter who they don't need (but would be valuable on say, the Mets), sign a slick-fielding CF to a huge contract one year after signing a different slick-fielding CF to a huge contract, and then fail to get Miguel Cabrera, the best hitter ever at this stage of his career, when there were basically no other takers and taking into account that they have a STOCKED minor-league system.

    Also, a great GM would have gone after Haren or Bedard last year, or the year before, and should be going after next year's Harens and Bedards and James Shields and Kelvim Escobars and John Maines (half-joking) before they get too good to trade for. Who are those guys? I dunno, but man is Ervin Santana asking for a change of address and pitching coach. His stuff is nasty.

    7:07 PM

     
    Anonymous Anonymous said...

    Welcome back Billy Traber

    Hahahahaa

    7:21 PM

     
    Anonymous Anonymous said...

    SCHNEIDER WILL HELP IMPROVE THE WHOLE PITCHING STAFF!!

    I can live with his bat.

    7:26 PM

     
    Blogger mr. met said...

    Omar, is that you?

    7:50 PM

     
    Anonymous Dep said...

    if omar trade joses reyes, I will scoops Omar's heart out of his body with a spoon and eat it in front of him.

    why a spoon?

    because it's dull, it'll hurt more!!!!!

    PS. Beane and Omar have both made statements saying that 3-way is a fabrication. Roto has Beane's quote.

    8:21 PM

     
    Blogger Anthony said...

    Agreed Dep. Well put. I am planning on getting season tickets this year. That will definitely be off the table if Reyes is not on our team.

    10:52 PM

     
    Anonymous Anonymous said...

    SCHNEIDER WILL HELP IMPROVE THE WHOLE PITCHING STAFF!!

    Good to see Brian Schneider is a fan of the site.




    Farva

    11:13 PM

     
    Blogger Itsmetsforme said...

    if the mets can get Don Johnson AND Bing Crosby in the same deal, ya gotta do that trade muthatruckers!

    The only way omar could get me back on his side is if he acquires K*zmir, Tom Seaver, jason Bay and Lastings for Schneider and Willie Randpolph (hey how come the manager market is so cold after Sweet Lou got traded for a player? we could definitly unload Willie. Is Duquette still working in a front office somewhere?)

    meanwhile Detroit hacks are already denying WFAN's report that D-train could be headed to the Shmets.
    http://www.mlive.com/tigers/index.ssf/2007/12/dontrelle_to_the_mets_no_thats.html

    Sounds like there is a chance in hell omar was more in on that Fishin expedition than he admits. Or. It's just total and complete bullshit. The punchline? Mets would take Pudge in the trade! gigidygigidygigidy

    11:33 PM

     
    Anonymous Two-By-Four said...

    It’s starting to appear more and more in today’s climate if you operate a sports franchise in New York you must either totally ignore the media and go about your business in a prudent and intelligent manor or operate as the Yankees do. Halfway, as is the Wilpons approach that is staying within budget that is too low for the incoming resources, while being sensitive to the media, leaves the team with egg on its face and very few post season appearances. If Fred and Ethel Wilpon are looking for a team to emulate it should be the Red Sox.

    It would have been in the Mets best interest if Omar could have convinced the Wilpons to hold on to LM but I really wonder if he even tried. Contrary to what I said before I’m now starting to believe that both Omar and Willie were just as culpable as the Wilpons in this fiasco.

    It appears that the Mets have lost sight of the fact that even with the meltdown they came extremely close to being in the post season last season and really needed some moderate improvements at some spots and do not have to make a splash that leaves the franchise impotent for the future.

    Anyway this off-season is leaving me numb and I’m starting to lose interest in the Mets shenanigans.

    ae I blew out my should and elbow about 32 years ago and now with the arthritis setting in I possibly could reach home plate on a few bounces before I double over in pain. So let me know if you need a pitcher. :)

    4:52 AM

     
    Blogger Rickey Henderson said...

    Since we're talking about offseason trades, you know what's really insane? The Marlins 2008 payroll is $8 million. Rickey didn't have a follow up to that. He just thought folks should be aware.

    12:45 PM

     
    Blogger mr. met said...

    Yeah, the highest salary will be something like $2.5 million. It's worth noting the pocketed about $47 million IN PROFIT in 2006 and it was probably more of the same in 2007. Methinks 2008 will be another spectacular year despite losing their marquee players.

    It's worth noting they have pretty much saved up enough money to pay for whatever the city won't in regards to their new stadium. If that does not outline how full of shit they are, I don't know what does.

    1:06 PM

     
    Anonymous ossy said...

    mikeinspain, omar tried to get haren last year.

    he also got maine for kris benson. he basically got oliver for cameron, who wanted out. he fucks up but makes brilliant moves too.

    every move cant be a heist

    2:14 PM

     
    Blogger mr. met said...

    Ossy, I think we all agree he has made some good moves and even some bad ones in hindsight that I will defend, but there are some real head scratchers.

    It's not over yet. His Milledge move while horrible, is not any reason for me to totally have a negative perception of him. However, he needs to do some good things. He needs to make some smart and savvy moves. Perez and Maine were tremendous moves. Not many GMs have ever gotten that much value in two seemingly innocuous trades and he did two in one year.

    But sometimes, I think he pushes things too much and was better off sitting tight on Milledge and just sticking to the plan which was do not panic. That move did not need to be made if you ask me. Maybe Church breaks out with 25 dingers by moving parks and not getting jerked around. But it just seems curious and more like a guy playing for next year rather than looking at the long term which he preached.

    2:38 PM

     
    Anonymous Two-By-Four said...

    From Newsday's Ken Davidoff:

    the Mets like their trade of Lastings Milledge to Washington for Ryan Church and Brian Schneider. Officials from other teams don't. And word is that the Milledge trade further hurt the Mets' chances of landing Haren, as Oakland general manager Billy Beane still likes Milledge.

    A poster at Metsblog wrote:

    Like Jim Duquette said on the radio yesterday….the Schneider/Church for Milledge deal would have been there way down the road. There was NO need to make that deal in such haste, especially if you know Beane really wants Milledge. Even if Milledge could only get you back Blanton in a package, that is still better than Church and Schneider…

    BTW Cerrone of Metsblog wrote:

    whether or not beane liked milledge, or doesn’t like milledge, is irrelevant…

    The media keeps the pressure on the Mets. Newsday's Ken Davidoff wrote:

    If ever a team needed the jolt of a high-profile, offseason acquisition, it's these Mets, whose September collapse looms over them like a cartoon cloud. Poor Willie Randolph, who took the brunt of the blame, brings up The Collapse without prompting to renewed acquaintances at these winter meetings.

    It's in his head. It's in everyone's head. A big acquisition would change the subject, but that doesn't seem likely, unless you qualify Livan Hernandez as "big."

    "To go get someone just for the sake of doing it, or just bringing the name in, that does nothing for us, I believe," Randolph said yesterday, at the Gaylord Opryland Hotel.

    Ordinarily, that would qualify as common sense. But these are not ordinary times. Randolph is on a short leash. Minaya really has to get the Mets back into the playoffs in order to re-establish his own credibility with his bosses and his fans.

    And yet, Santana, Haren and, very likely, Bedard are not coming through that door. Minaya passionately defends his trading chips, as well he should; it comes with his job. The deafening silence on the other side of the conversation tells the real story.

    4:15 PM

     
    Anonymous Anonymous said...

    'whether or not beane liked milledge, or doesn’t like milledge, is irrelevant…'

    Its Cerrone's opinion that is irrelevant. He does a nice job with Mets news, but I don't go there for his take on things.

    Emad

    7:04 PM

     
    Anonymous orangeandblueblood said...

    Mr. Met, I need more Met posts or I'll be forced to go to metsblog and read know nothing, dolt comments. Help me I'm melting. Rumor is the Mets offered Heilman for Fuentes. I guess now Omar wants a guy one year from free agency for a guy three years from free agency while they have equal perfomance histories. I wonder if the Mets inquired about Matt Cain. He would be a great get if the Giants would trade him and the Mets match theri needs. I am skeptical about the Santana rumors concerning the Mets and still don't see him in Blue and orange in 2008. At this point the Twins should keep him and see if Delmon Young can add enough offense that with Liriano and Santana the Twiggies can make the playoffs and if not trade Santana in July. The Mets pitching situation is not all bad. I still think Pelfrey can be a solid #2 two seasons from now. I would like to see the Mets aggressively sign a guy like Mench to platoon with Church in RF. This would shore up the OF and provide a viable safety net for the inevitable Alou injury. Mench handle lefties very well. Throw some money at him and let him know he is the first option when Alou goes down and he may sign with the Mets. Then build reserves in the pen (anybody know if this Register guy the Mets picked up in the rule 5 draft viable?.

    8:50 PM

     
    Blogger mr. met said...

    I'm trying man! I know it is not apparent since I have blog, but I do have a life! Hard to believe...yes...but it's true.

    Heilman for Fuentes sounds about right. That would fit right in to their plan.

    I like your Mench plan, but they would probably need to play Church everyday to justify the trade and you know that is what is on their mind....justifying it.

    9:24 PM

     
    Anonymous orangeandblueblood said...

    Just busting your stones. I look forward to checking out your blog and the comments several times a day. It's great.

    I don't see the merit in swapping Heilman for Fuentes. There isn't much of an upgrade and Heilman will be cheaper & under control longer.

    I hope your wrong about playing Church full time and not bringing in another OF with some power. Chavez, Anderson, and Easley is not adequate back-up when you know Alou will go down and Church is iffy against lefties.

    In my mind there are three big decisions left for the Mets brass: 1. Pedro, Perez, Maine, #4, & Pelfrey, who will #4 be - Colon, Silva, Livan Hernandez, trade????; 2. Will the Mets pick up another OFer capable of being an everyday player to rotate between LF & RF (Gomez needs to play at AAA until September call up)?; 3. Is Sanchez a viable part of the Heilman/Sanchez relief tandem or is an acqusition necessary?

    How long till Pitchers and Catchers report?

    10:44 PM

     

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