A blog dedicated to the New York Mets with some other baseball thrown in.

Thursday, November 29, 2007


I guess the Twins got what they wanted. They were interested in Young, B.J. Upton, and Gomez and they got Delmon Young for Matt Garza. The Rays also netted a shortstop to hold down the fort and give Reid Brignac some extra time while the Twins added some much needed outfield depth in their system with Jason Pridie.

The Rays are also looking to add Troy Percival to the bullpen and all of sudden they have a rather formidable front two. They also have Andy Andy Sonnanstine, James Shields, and Edwin Jackson, who had a nice second half in '07, to compliment them and all of sudden have a deep rotation with plenty of solid arms still in the system with Niemann probably targeted to be a bullpen arm down the line.

You have to like this deal from both sides of the coin though you can say the Twins came out hair ahead because Young's considerable upside. The Twins get their right handed power bat and the Devil Rays got a front end starter. It would not shock me at all to see Jason Kubel break out this year to give the Twins a solid offensive team to go with a sterling pitching staff if Santana stays around.

* * *

  • Back to Santana and how this deal will come into play with any possible Santana deal. First, it kind of changes the type of players they might want back. We know they have a first baseman, catcher, right fielder, left fielder that I hope they do not give up on, and a second baseman. Also, they have another guy they got from Tampa that they could possibly plug into centerfield from day one, but is a place that is not a burning need, but a mild need. That leaves third base, short, center, and the mound as possible places to upgrade.

    The Yankees have been rumored to have to give up Melky and one of Hughes/Joba/Kennedy while the Red Sox need to give up Ellsbury and Buccholz/Lester. Am I the only one is missing something? Maybe if Joba was in for sure, then a two player deal would be doable in my eyes, but Kennedy and Cabrera as a possible deal for Santana? That deal would have been done in a nanosecond if it was on the table, but I just cannot see that as being enough. The Yankees by far have the worst deal on the table if Joba is not included.

    If the Twins cannot greatly improve in center with a Milledge or Ellsbury or get a high ceiling guy like Gomez, I am not seeing the point in a guy like Melky to place hold since Pridie could probably come close to his mediocre production. Basically, the Yankees deal looks even worse for the Twins than it did before unless they sweeten the pot with Joba or Hughes and Kennedy with another young high ceiling A baller stuck in.

    The Mets might need to part with Reyes according to John Harper's source and Adam Rubin echoed that. Santana is arguably the best pitcher in the universe, but Reyes is a vital part to this team's future. I'm sorry, but the Mets simply cannot do that. If they need to give Milledge, Maine, Heilman, and something else, so be it. But Wright and Reyes should be off limits and not even part of the discussion. If this is truly being considered, the Mets really need to reevaluate their plan. Yes, they need an ace, but they cannot significantly weaken the team by dishing off Reyes who is probably the top catalyst in the league. There are a lot of good arms available after '08 and they simply need to get a Tom Glavine level replacement, which should not be hard to do. Let us not forget he posted an ERA+ below 100 so it would not be as hard as everyone thinks to replace his output.

    The Mariners conjured up package of Adam Jones, Brandon Morrow, and Jeff Clement is not such a good fit anymore and they would probably be gunning for something else and suddenly the Dodgers and Angels are the only two teams with a real good fit, though they have been lukewarm in regards to any deal. This thing is spiraling out of control, but the Twins should focus on the best group of players over the best fit anyway. However, it is increasingly obvious that they will get a nice haul of players, but I just hope the Mets do not go too far off the deep end in an act of desperation. Dan Graziano has a different take and says the Mets are not truly in the mix for Santana because or their lack of top tier arms and their stance on not giving any pitcher over five years.

  • If you are looking for a good laugh....you have found it.

    Lennon admits they probably don't have the chips to get Johan Santana, which makes me wonder how they'd have enough to get Blanton or Haren.

    Omar Minaya and Billy Beane discussed these guys a year ago, and couldn't come to an agreement. Now Beane's price has risen - Lastings Milledge and Aaron Heilman won't cut it (not sure if it would've last year anyway). I'm not sure if adding any Mets pitching prospect to that pair would be enough to get Blanton, who would have a lesser price tag than Haren. Add Carlos Gomez to the package and you might have something.

    Might have something? First, that is not a bad haul at all for Haren and is defendable in both directions. I'm sure Beane would want a young pitcher back as well, but not a horrible deal for either side. However, for Blanton? Milledge straight up for Blanton would be a waste if you ask me. Just get Carlos Silva who had rather similar ERA+ over the last four years with the exception of a down '06. Yes he costs money, but that trade is just ridiculous. Or at worst, get Livan as a one year stopgap to eat some innings as I kind of view him and Blanton in the same fashion or just look towards Japan and take a risk.

    Blanton is not a game changer and let us not overvalue innings. Yes, they are important for obvious reasons, but not at the expense of your system and the exact bullpen you are trying to save. This notion that Blanton is some proven and reliable starter needs to stop. His fastball is underwhelming to say the least, he cannot miss bats, and is portly. Not that I have an issue with portly people, but he is young enough for it to be somewhat of a concern. I would not mind him on this team, but there does not seem to be a great fit in regards to a trade between the two teams since the Mets are lacking after Gomez and Milledge.

  • The Mets acquired something to throw at the wall to see if it sticks.

  • One and done. Tom, we hardly knew ye'. I vote to bring back Fran Healy.
  • Labels: , , , ,


    Blogger mr. met said...

    Nokes...as a continuation from last night....

    Eckstein, Castillo, Wright, Beltran, Delgado, Alou, Estrada and um....RF?

    Ugh. The staff is great as you stated, but a 33 year old unathletic shortstop that is a slap hitter, a 33 year old ex-speedster slap hitter, a 24 year old electric five tool player, a 30 year old five tool player, a 36/37 year old on the downside of his career, a 41 year old guy with health issues, a 31 year old enigma who had one really good season catching with Castro as his platoon partner, and noone in right outside of Fukodome that interests me.

    I cannot tell you how bad that sounds to me. Listen, the Mets do not need an ace. Would one be nice? Yes, but you have to balance the future and Reyes should be kept around a la Jeter. He's that good and is going to get better. When I look at the other options, the Mets can put together something that can work well and will give them a chance to win now and possibly better in the long run.

    10:56 AM

    Blogger sweep said...


    Fran Healy?!?!?! Even if you are Joking you are one sick bastard!

    One thing I need to see end is the idea of giving up John Maine in any deal. We can not give up another 15 game winner just to pick up a guy who will win 15-18 games. All of a sudden we are paying an extra $20mil for 3 more wins...silly idea. Santana is awesome but for any package he is dealt for he needs to improve Glavines (not Maines) win toatl by 4 or 5 wins.

    Reyes should be locked in fort Knox until spring training. He is as untouchable as untouchable comes. Look up untouchable in the dictionary and under the picture of Sean Connery with a tommy gun is a picture of Jose.

    Jose Reyes = U N T O U C H A B L E

    11:41 AM

    Blogger mr. met said...

    Scott I agree with your Maine assessment, but you are clearly upgrading and can replace Maine easier than finding a Santana, which is the point.

    I would like to keep both, but if trading Maine keeps the outfield and the bullpen intact, it is worth it, no? It really depends on how the rest of the deal rounds out, but there has to be a breaking point when too much is too much.

    12:04 PM

    Blogger Rickey Henderson said...

    "Young's considerable upside"

    Well done sir--but you left out "potential" at the end.

    /innocuous comment

    12:10 PM

    Anonymous ossy said...

    i dont get how the twins can ask us for reyes but not for cano or joba. id take reyes over both any day of the week. oh and yea, reyes is just starting a 4 yr contract for like $20m. go suck a cock billie smith. give me santana and bonser for reyes and ill talk

    cus of the kazmir trade, gms are gonna try to hold us up for everything.

    i dont like the garza trade for the twins. you need outfield help but not at the cost of a potential #2 pitcher especially considering that young may one day set it off in minnesota.

    12:16 PM

    Anonymous ossy said...

    i like the brian stokes move for a few reasons.

    its no risk and for someone to run out a releiver 59 times with a 7+ era means that he probably has filthy shit.

    we need livan and his 200+ innings.

    sherman from the post brought up how minaya gave up bannister, lidstrom, owens and bell for nothing. we couldve offered all four and pelfrey/milledge to the twins

    12:21 PM

    Anonymous Anonymous said...

    I dont WANT to give up Reyes, but it seems that the thing that gonna get Santana. I understand that. I was against it before but now I see how one can make the arguement for.

    And you KNOW Omar is going to get killed by everyone if he doesnt come through with an Ace; Santana, Haren, Bedard, Oswalt. And no one will have confidence in a Pedro, Maine, Perez, Hernandez/Silva/Blanton, Pelfrey/Humber rotation. It'll be competitive, but I'm not sure it can go all the way.

    Now as far as Oakland I have no idea what Beane would want to Haren if the allegations are true if L-Mill and Heilman wont cut it. Unless he's saying 'Hmmm..if this is what it takes for Santana, maybe I can squeeze more out from somewhere.'

    I hate baseball.

    - Nokes

    12:52 PM

    Blogger mr. met said...

    Ossy...I have to say I think the Twins still come out a touch better, though not lopsided at all. Of course things could change if Young turns into Pedro Feliz, but I doubt he will. I think he's the real deal, but Garza might as well be too, though his stats are going to take a slight hit in the AL East.

    Reyes is bigger asset than Cano and Joba any day of the week. However, the problem is Hughes is more highly regarded than anything the Mets have which allows them to make an offer that does not have Cano and Joba. Sad, but true. In fact, Kennedy is better than any pitcher the Mets are offering and is more highly regarded than by some than Milledge and Gomez simply because he is a pitcher.

    The Mets probably do not have the juice unless they vastly overpay in numbers, which is not a good scene.

    Hey, Stokes is fine in my book. More options the better.

    Sherman makes a good point and there is no doubt that Omar shit the bed last off-season.

    12:57 PM

    Blogger mr. met said...

    I don't care if everyone kills Omar. Omar needs to do the best for his team and cannot worry about the fans or the media. He is the expert and not us and trading Reyes is a big mistake.

    RE: Beane...he's a fair trading partner. Believe it...he'll do what's best for his team and not hold out to rip someone off.

    12:58 PM

    Anonymous Danny said...

    Stokes is the classic unpolished power arm. Low-risk, high potential reward. And you know Omar loves the power arms. I like the move a lot. The Mets have cash, so why not? It won't hurt, and Omar is not counting on Stokes for anything. But he's another option and he might help.

    Trading Reyes would be a catastrophic mistake. You get lucky once or twice in a generation as a franchise with a toolsy Latin American prospect that you sign for pennies and he develops into a perennial All-Star. Not to mention how Reyes has a skill set that you simply can't replace it. Name another player that balances his speed, power, on-base skills and defense at shortstop. It doesn't exist. He's the total package. He's only 24 years old for goodness sakes, he's younger than Hunter Pence. He should never wear another uniform unless he punches David Wright in the face or something. There is no rationale to defend trading him in my opinion. None.

    1:13 PM

    Blogger mr. met said...

    He's only 24 years old for goodness sakes, he's younger than Hunter Pence.

    Swellicious tidbit.

    1:14 PM

    Anonymous Danny said...

    Mike, I completely agree about Beane. Look at how he still values Pelfrey. He knows what upside is there in spite of his troubles. He is smart and confident enough in himself to not care how anybody else values these guys. He's going to make whatever he thinks is a good trade.

    Milledge simply cannot be traded for Blanton. He simply cannot.

    1:17 PM

    Blogger mr. met said...

    He's going to make whatever he thinks is a good trade.

    Funny thing is, it is much easier for a small market team to do that simply because of the lack of media pressure.

    The media in Boston and New York can literally run players (Kent) and team personnel out of town.

    Beane might be impervious to that in any market because he has built up so much respect, but there he almost has god-like status and would have to try really hard to draw any ire from the fanbase and media. It teally gives him the ability to make the deals he needs to even though the Hudson deal fell through, the Cardinals deal was such a resounding success that trading Haren really will not be much of an issue for anyone even if they do not recognize a name that they get back.

    1:21 PM

    Anonymous benny blanco from da bronx said...

    I'm getting really nervous, I keep hearing this talk about Reyes for Santana, it must not and cannot happen. I'm VERY VERY nervous... I hope Omar doesn't do it, it just doesn't make any sense. Reyes is a 23 year old elite SHORTSTOP! He'd be the one traded for one year

    2:18 PM

    Anonymous benny said...

    I'm soo nervous I didn't even finish my sentence!
    He'd be the one traded for one year of a 30 year old pitcher, I don't care how good he is, its fucking retarded

    2:25 PM

    Anonymous Anonymous said...

    ESPN.com reported on Thursday that the Red Sox and Twins have discussed a potential deal in which center fielder Coco Crisp, left-hander Jon Lester and promising Minor League shortstop Jed Lowrie would head to Minnesota along with one other prospect in exchange for Santana.

    7:07 PM

    Anonymous Anonymous said...

    Benny - don't worry, Omar went so far as to call the NY Post and say there was NO WAY he was trading Jose Reyes. This is just a bunch of crappy media guys writing stories 'cause they're bored.

    Even Keith Law said in his chat today that Reyes for Santana straight up is a disaster. Reyes is one of the Top 20 players in baseball at 24 signed to a very reasonable contract. You don't trade that. We're all good.

    You know, a lot of little things went wrong last year (besides the epic collapse). Burgos blowing his arm was bigger than we all thought. Omar got him to be this year's Duaner (at the time of the trade, was Bannister for Burgos really any different than Seo for Sanchez?) With Burgos in the mix, and Mota being halfway effective, there is no room for Bell, Owens, or Lindstrom. They were all getting old, so Omar spun Owens and Lindstrom off for two younger, lefty starters, and traded Bell for OF depth in case he traded Milledge for an arm.

    So what happens? Burgos blows out his arm, Mota wasn't within nuclear distance of halfway decent, Duaner and Padilla both get re-injured, we have 6 major injuries in the OF (Alou, Green, Milledge, Johnson, Gomez, and FMart), we spend the whole year looking for one more bullpen arm, and WE STILL MISSED THE PLAYOFFS BY ONE GAME and the best record in the NL by two.

    Do we all remember where this franchise was before Omar? How am I reading things about this being a make-or-break season for him? Are you kidding me????? Hasn't he brought us, oh, I don't know, Beltran, Pedro, Maine, Perez, El Duque, Alou, Delgado, Duaner and Wagner??? Bitch all you want, but every single one of those players was WAY better than the guy in their role previously. So Omar took a couple minor gambles and they didn't work out last year. Seriously, though, who was the best player we gave up? Bannister? Really? Sure, he had a good year and he's serviceable. Would we feel comfortable counting on him to be anything better than a #4 starter next year?

    And it's not like we are a second division team right now. Today - with no moves - I'd still take us to win the NL East. We have 5 core players who we can expect to only keep getting better - Wright, Reyes, Maine, Perez, and Milledge. We are in good shape; maybe not to win the WS this year (although maybe), but certainly going forward.

    While I'd still love to see the Mets pick off Harden from the A's for his upside (and I think you can get him somewhat cheaply) and add Livan or Silva for innings, I've come around to accepting we will lose some prospects this year because everyone is running around like their hair is on fire.

    So here's what I say. The three young guys who I'd say are tradeable are:
    - Gomez: well thought of around the league, and since we need Milledge this year and FMart is a superstar, don't see room for him in the future.
    - Mulvey: coming off a great year that is likely as high as his value will get.
    - Heilman: again, coming off a great year likely as high as his value will get.
    - Nick Evans: see Heilman & Mulvey

    So put Gomez, Mulvey, Heilman and Evans on the table for Haren + something or Bedard + Ramon Hernandez (plus maybe take a bad contract like Baez off the O's hands). First team to bite make the deal. Sign Livan, move El Duque to the bullpen. Sign Dotel. Keep the rest of the prospects so they can get healthy / rebuild their value.

    Does a rotation of Pedro, Bedard, Maine, Perez, Livan not give us the best rotation in the NL? Is a pen of Wagner, Dotel, El Duque, Feliciano, Smith and junk not one of the better pens? Wouldn't we still have Pelfrey, Humber, FMart, Guerra, Parnell, Niese, and Carp as upper-level prospect depth? Is it just me, or is the sky not falling here???


    7:31 PM

    Anonymous Anonymous said...

    Some people need to relax. I do believe that by law, if Omar trades Reyes for ANYTHING, he needs to tattoo the word "Tool" onto his forehead in 100 point Times Roman Bold.

    The only way Jose Reyes is leaving this team is if he somehow manages to fall off the subway platform while waiting for the 7 to Shea, gets smacked by an oncoming train, and is carried out in a body bag.

    10:25 PM

    Anonymous Anonymous said...

    Mets acquire Ben Sheets for Heilman and Collazo.

    11:02 PM

    Anonymous Anonymous said...

    "replace Maine easier than finding a Santana, which is the point."

    Ah, No, we can't replace a John Maine or even an Oli Perez. There is no one on the FA `market as good as these two...no one. As hard as it is to imagine, Maine is not replaceable. First we do not have the talent to trade for a Maine if there was one to be had. Who, besides the top aces had a line of 191 inn 15w 180so 3.91era???? The talent level this season was seriously polarised and Maine was in the nice side.

    15 wins is too hard to replace.


    1:54 AM

    Anonymous Two-By-Four said...

    In my eyes MLB Trade Rumors has as much credibility as Wallace Mathews. I imagine when you are forced to put out a daily blog or column there will be times when you have to pull something out of your rectum.

    Blanton reminds me of Rick Reuschel except that Reuschel had a little more talent and was a fine athlete in spite of his weight. Ralph Kiner used to tell how Reuschel and his brother were roomed together and they would use a George Foreman hamburger cooker to broil hamburgers in the middle of the night. Initially batters tried to bunt off of Reuschel figuring at his weight he would never get to the ball. But the guy was extremely quick and kept on throwing these hitters out.

    Ian Kennedy reminded me of Blanton in that he doesn’t have overwhelming talent but has excellent command.

    I have had the good fortune of witnessing some truly great pitchers over the years and I’m not sure how to quantify this but imo a great SS has more impact on a team’s season than a great pitcher. If the Mets were to trade Reyes I would lose all respect for Omar and the ballclub.

    I am afraid of the pressure being put on Omar by the Wilpons. From a purely business pov the Mets need to make a back page splash to enhance their ticket and merchandise sales. The Wilpons may be influenced more by media pressure than Omar is. But let’s not forget that Omar enjoys seeing his face on the back pages and his body of work in Montreal suggests that he’s capable of making some very good moves and some very bad moves. I prefer to wait 5 years after a GM is hired and then evaluate the entire body of his work.

    "Mets acquire Silk Sheets for Heilman and Collazo." :)

    2:28 AM

    Anonymous Two-By-Four said...

    Brandon (RVC,NY): Should I be worried as a Met fan that the Mets won't have the ammunition to get top starter this offseason?

    Keith Law: Ridiculous. I've seen that mentioned in some NY papers, and it's absurd. Carlos Gomez is very highly-rated within the game. Fernando Martinez (who seems to be their one untouchable) is still one of the top 10-12 prospects in the game. Pelfrey hasn't even turned 24 yet, and he's still mid-90s with plus sink. I have no idea why it's fashionable to bash the Mets' young players, but they have plenty of assets to go get another starter. Whether they choose to part with them or not is the question.

    2:38 AM

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