A blog dedicated to the New York Mets with some other baseball thrown in.

Friday, November 16, 2007

Common Sense Prevails!

The LoDuca lovers (just speculation that he is the apple of their eye) are out in full force. Look, I do not love Yorvit. However, what else was out there? The trade possibilities were uninspiring and the Mets need to hang onto whatever little prospects they have if no one was appreciably better. Besides, you cannot overlook the fact that Ramon Castro, who might be better than anyone they have been looking at or rumored to be looking at, is still around and will get a large chunk of playing time.

Jonathan (Dallas, TX): The Mets have officially signed Yorvit Torrealba. The downfall of Omar Minaya has begun.

SportsNation Keith Law: Torrealba's not a good player - didn't make my top 50 free agents - but what were the alternatives on the market? He's not blocking anyone. They didn't pass on a significantly better free agent catcher, unless you want to roll the dice on Barrett bouncing back (which he will, but there's risk there). In the abstract, it's a bad signing. In context, it's understandable.

If you can name some type of scenario where the Mets make out better, I would love to know. Ramon Hernandez would have been nice, but he was not going to share time with Castro and he would have cost a top prospect and would not have been a complete salary dump. Laird? Is he all that much better of a choice? Shoppach? I'm a big fan of him, but there is still some uncertainty there and he would have cost more talent than Laird even though Castro could be better.

jLuft: So Shoppach can't hit outside breaking pitches. Yorvit can't hit...at all. Aren't there minor leaguers, salary dumps (Ramon Hernandez?), or younger and cheaper players (Shoppach) that would easily be able to equal or beat Yorvit's production and not require a multi-year deal? I don't see how this is a defensible signing. What do you project Yorvit to hit next year with Shea as his home park?

SportsNation Keith Law: You have to give something up in players to get those other guys. And I don't think the Mets wanted to deal any of their better prospects to fill the catching hole when they might want to have them available to go after a big SP.

I think the main thing people are glazing over with this signing is that Yorvit will not be the everyday starter and there will be two guys getting significant amounts of time. I will guarantee that the two headed monster of Torrealba and Castro will put up better numbers than anyone the Mets were looking at. This is not a bad thing at all. Is it a great thing? Shit no, but it is more of an innocuous move that does not deserve as much ire and attention as it is getting. Remember, the key word to this off-season should be prudent. The Mets simply cannot panic as a result of their meltdown and this move was a prudent move when you factor in the other options and Ramon Castro.

* * *

  • Now to second base....

    Andre (GA): Hey Keith, I have a 2 part question: I kinda feel Luis Castillo is too old, almost no power and too expensive to man 2B for the mets. How ready is Ruben Gotay to play there as a regular and is he worth it?? and two with Minaya expressing his desire to trade young talent for an ace pitcher, who do see becoming a trading partner with the Mets and what player might be involved??

    SportsNation Keith Law: The Mets don't feel Gotay is good enough defensively to handle 2b. I think his range is fine, and he needs work turning the double play, but that can improve with work. His bat is ready - I'd take his bat over Castillo's, especially since Castillo is old, slowing down, and getting a little thick. The Mets will kick the tires on any #1/#2 starters made available, but right now only Erik Bedard really fits that bill, and Baltimore would like to make sure they can't sign him long-term before they shop him.

    As Danny stated yesterday and as we have discussed before, a Gotay and Easley platoon would be just fine. No need to go crazy at second if you do not have to and it certainly gives the Mets some leverage. They are not desperate, but it would be nice to upgrade.

    Castillo for longer than two years would be a disaster and Omar should know that. The fact that Houston is looking at Castillo for a long time and are looking to add Cordero as well is mind boggling. When they should be looking at rebuilding, they are looking at bringing in more pieces that will not be around when they are winning. Fucking ponderous.

  • It looks like Jake Peavy and the Padres are going to be talking contract extension and that is upsetting. However, not as upsetting as I thought it would be since I thought he was going to be a free agent after the '08 season, but it turns out he had an option for '09 anyway. The Padres are not poor and Barry Axelrod is not Scott Boras. I fully expect something to be in place prior to the beginning of the season.

  • Wallace Matthews is being a negative nelly again and he did not have to wait long to eat his words.

    If anyone is being used here, it's the Yankees, but they must know this, mustn't they? Because if they believe they're getting Rodriguez in a room by himself, they must also believe somebody can do a better job of managing this team than Joe Torre. (Oh, wait a minute ... )

    Ziiiiing! Ha ha...he's so funny with that subtle knock at the Yankees. First, Joe Girardi is probably going to be a better manager than Torre in many, many, many respects. Second, A-Rod has signed already.

    The sides still are working on putting together a provision that would allow Rodriguez to share revenue created by his pursuit of the career home record held by Barry Bonds, who was indicted Thursday on perjury and obstruction charges. A-Rod has 518 homers, 244 shy of the mark.

    Well, Matthews is part right I guess because A-Rod's deal has Boras written all over it. It is a bizarre and hard to determine provision. Or at least I would presume it to be hard to determine for a team that already sells out all of it's games and maximizes their revenue.

    "Because he's generating such enormous revenue potential, both to the player and the club, there should be some way for the player and the club to capitalize on that achievement in some fashion," said Gene Orza, the union's chief operating officer. "The devil will be in the details. The minds of men and women in the sport should be able to figure this out."

    Shocking statement from the player's union. Really, take more money out of the owner's pocket and put it into the pocket of a player?

    "There are a few cynics who say, 'Well, he really couldn't get this there,' " Steinbrenner said. "Trust me, he would have gotten probably more. He is making a sacrifice to be a Yankee, there's no question. ... He showed what was really in his heart and what he really wanted."

    Everyone is in save face mode. The Yankees are saying he came crawling back to them. A-Rod is saying he finally had an epiphany. Who gives a shit. Everyone made out and no one is going to give two shits about this come the start of the season much less three years from now. I am just very excited the A-Rod watch is over.

    I think Neyer said it best though...

    We've been reading that A-Rod came back to the Yankees because he's been so disturbed by all the nasty things people have been saying about him. Sorry. I'm not buying that. I think he's come back for the same reason the Yankees have reneged on their sworn promise to spurn all negotiations if he opted out of his old deal: business.

    Rodriguez simply wasn't going to get that $35 million per season that Scott Boras was talking about. Not from the Yankees or anyone else. And it seems he wasn't going to get even $30 million from anyone else. Teams really have wised up. Crawling back to the Steinbrothers is simply good business for A-Rod and his agent.

    The Yankees need a third baseman. They literally have more money than they can spend this winter, considering the thin crop of free agents who might be slotted into the roster. Yes, they look a little silly, negotiating with A-Rod so soon after swearing they absolutely, positively would not. You know what? Nobody's going to care. People say things they don't really mean all the time, and the grown-ups all knew it (even if I didn't). Locking up A-Rod forever is simply good business for the Yankees.

    None of this is about pride, or redemption, or egos. It's about business.

    Just an aside, A-Rod is still a big douche.

  • Jeter is a criminal. So is Bonds.

    Wait. Barry did steroids? Get out of here. I'm shocked. Can we all stop this? Barry did roids and lied about it, but a lot of other people did as well. Sure, not in front of a Federal Grand Jury, but we are talking about baseball and steroids. He impeded a legal proceeding, which is a bad thing, but so did the former President of the United States.

    Now this is all supposed to tarnish his legacy? It should be just as tarnished as it was two days ago, which is marginally and I'm not buying "but now we reeeaaalllllyy know" argument. To act like this is all Bonds' fault it nuts. This steroid debacle was everyone's fault and is similar to the mortgage mess. The mortgage mess is the brokers fault for originating the loans, the investors fault for having an appetite for riskier loans with high interest rates which had driven the entire market, the rating agencies faults for putting those risky securities on par with government bonds, the borrowers faults for not being a more educated consumer (I mean it is only the biggest investment you will make in your life), etc.

    How has Bonds become the fall guy for this steroid era? When the Mitchell report comes out, many, many, many big names will be named and yet everyone wants to vilify Bonds for taking steroids as if he was the only one. Again, cheating in the game of baseball has been around since the first pitch in many forms. For me, I do not seperate forms of cheating. In sports, everyone tries to get a leg up on the competition. That does not make it ok, but cheating is certainly not isolated and certainly not new.

    If this impacts his Hall of Fame bid, it will be a shame. It is widely believed he was a Hall of Famer anyway and I could see how steroids would take a borderline guy out, but he is not a borderline guy. What if it comes out that Roger Clemens took them? Nothing. He will not be vilified and he will be in the Hall of Fame and I wonder why Bonds is getting treated differently.
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    Blogger metsfanincincy said...

    Ladies and gentlemen, introducing the Houstone Astros, the new Pittsburgh Pirates!

    1:56 PM

    Anonymous ossy said...

    i totally agree about the cheating thing... everyone has cheated since back in the day. how many spit ballers are in the hall of fame?

    when it comes out that roger clemens (who went throught the same kinda late career push like bonds) via the grimsley stuff, people dismiss it.

    its bullshit. enough with it already.

    its hard to gauge the value of a catcher in the mlb because he is a factor on both sides of the ball. it wouldve been nice to have gotten ramon hernandez though when he was available.

    we have a few GDIP's waiting to happen in delgado, castro, yorvit... awesome!!

    2:05 PM

    Blogger mr. met said...

    Houston is so poorly run they have become the poster child for what not to do. I'll tell you what, the worst thing for that franchise had been their two consecutive playoff pushes and their WS appearance during really, really, bad NL Central years. It gave them a false sense of being able to compete and they improperly gauged (and continue to) their talent.

    Right. And the entire, innocent until proven guilty thing is silly. It is clear some of these guys have, but who cares? Move on. Just another blemish on the history of MLB. Besides, how roided up is the NFL?

    Yes, Ramon would have been much better and the Mets would stll have Gaby. Hopefully they learned a lesson to flex their financial muscle while keeping good prospects. I liked Paulie Ballgame, but in hindsight, it was not a good move.

    we have a few GDIP's waiting to happen in delgado, castro, yorvit... awesome!!

    As much as I love Wright and Alou, you can throw them in there as well.

    2:12 PM

    Anonymous benny said...

    Barry Bonds is fucked. Whomp, Whomp! That's what you get for lying in court you moron.
    Anyways, what messed Bonds up from the get go was being a dick to the media ever since he was rookie. He's been a dick to them since 88 and this is the media's way of "thanking" him. I mean Giambi was deemed a "good guy" by media people so the articles of forgiveness come out. Not for Barry, sorry dude, 20 years of being an ass to certian people is coming back to haunt him. Regardless though, whether or not he was a good guy or a bad guy in people's minds, he still lied in court, under testimony, something other players didn't do.

    A Top prospect for Ramon Hernandez? REALLY? jeeze... If Ramon Hernandez is worth a top prospect then how come when people talk about Delgado all that's mentioned is how shitty he is and how it can only be a salary dump.
    Whatever, Vomit's here to stay, I'll cheer him on but he still sucks and he'll continue to suck in my mind until he gets some runs batted in.

    Hank Steinbrenner is a tool!

    I don't like people comparing Castillo to Eckstein. Castillo is an OBP machine. Eckstein's career high is a down year for Castillo. THey both have grit and fire and passion and all that other jazz but Castillo produced better.
    4 years though? ugh, brutal. No 4 years for Castillo he is one old ass 31 year old.

    Despite all this talk about Scott Boras not "being there", he IS there, he STILL gets his 10% commision! LOL!

    Hank Steinbrenner is a douche!

    2:46 PM

    Anonymous Pavan said...

    I think I'm in the minority here.

    Taking steroids is completely different than throwing a spitball or even corking your bat. Corking your bat and spitballs are just illegal in baseball, but taking steriods is freaking illegal by federal law. I'm happy Bonds is indicted for perjury, I hope they throw his ass in jail, along with anybody else who took an illegal substance, whether they lied under oath about it or not... fuck em all. They all should've known this was a possibility when they started taking steroids.

    But you're right Mike, Bonds should still go to the hall of fame. You can't adjust his numbers or anyone else's that way... his legacy isn't really going to change that much either way.

    3:23 PM

    Blogger mr. met said...

    I don't think being a dick to the media warrants this treatment. Afterall, the media is incredibly annoying, no?

    I understand the legal ramifications of lying in court, but he has had a target on his back from the general populace for a while now as well and that seems a big unjust.

    Vomit? C'mon man. You will come around.

    Good point on the Eckstein front. I would not care so much in regards to either and if they do not have either one, I won't complain either. Second base is far and away a non-issue for me.

    Pavan....I understand that one is illegal under federal law. Have you ever had beers at a baseball game and driven home? Chances are, that was illegal as well. I think there are different levels of breaking the law. Steroids is hardly the scourge of America and regardless if spitballs were federal law or not, it was still cheating. Cheating is cheating and is it REALLY cheating if 50% to 75% of your peers are doing the same thing or using greenies?

    So far, Canseco has been pretty right. He said 50% was juiced back in the day. While I think that is high, it was probably more expansive than most believe. Throw on top of that the amphetamines and I think the problem goes up exponentially.

    Sorry....I'm not ready to hang up the roid users and lock them up.

    However, they need to fix it and they need to get the MLPA on board because they are public enemy #1 with their shitty invasion of privacy argument. They need to get more blame....

    3:45 PM

    Blogger Sidd Finch said...

    The problem is still that there is no valid test for HGH. In that regard, it really doesn't matter if players are cheating, because they will not get caught. MLB may need to keep connected to some of the federal investigations that keep an eye on who buys the stuff, a la Grimsley.

    At least there's one thing that we won't have to worry about with Torrealba, and that's Lastings batting in the #8 slot....

    4:17 PM

    Blogger mr. met said...

    At least there's one thing that we won't have to worry about with Torrealba, and that's Lastings batting in the #8 slot....

    Ha ha...that was funny. I think you forgot who is the manager. I'm willing to bet my blankie and barbie doll collection that Torrealba is batting in front of Lastings come opening day.

    4:57 PM

    Blogger mr. met said...

    Also sidd....it has been mentioned before in other places, then MLB has to trade blood samples and tell the players they are going to be saved for later testing to try and scare them.

    4:58 PM

    Anonymous Anonymous said...

    "Afterall, the media is incredibly annoying, no?" - Matt Cerone proves this.


    7:47 PM

    Anonymous Anonymous said...

    Batting second and catching...

    Hahaha...thanks Willie

    Mike...could we change the A-rod pic for something nicer? I'm getting spoiled already.


    8:55 PM

    Anonymous benny blanco from da bronx said...

    Oh Mike, don't get it twisted, me, personally, I don't feel its right that he's been treated the way he has. I've even defended him on occasion BUT you asked for the reason that Bonds is being treated differently and the reason is because he's been a dick to people and there ya go. I don't agree with it but that's it, that's the reason, it sucks but whatever. It's coming back to haunt him.

    David Eckstein ugh, well as long as he doesn't bat 2nd in the order I guess...

    Eckstein and Vomit? Milledge has to bat second, right? :-( he won't...

    9:43 PM

    Blogger bmc said...

    A 2B platoon of Gotay against righties and Easley against lefties would flat out rake.

    Barry is being vilified by the media because he treats the media like the hypocritical, backbiting, blood sucking jackals they are. The coverage is not in proportion to general perception.

    10:34 PM

    Anonymous Richie said...

    Benny -- you once said that you had said some horrible things to Bonds at a game from the Shea bleachers. Are you ever going to let us in on the content of your heckling? Some how I just got to know.

    Can't say exactly where I stand on the Bonds thing, but it seems to me it would be more appropriate to have MLB -- and the player's union -- taking action against him than the Feds. But I can't see that ever happening. It would be too much an admission of negligence, or maybe of incompetence coupled with greed.

    No Eckstein. Give Gotay a shot.

    11:25 PM

    Anonymous Anonymous said...

    Pavan - I'm right there with you. I think there are very few things more dangerous to baseball than steroids. If you allow steroids, tehn eventually nearly everyone will have to take steroids and players like David Wright won't have a place. Baseball will become the WWE.

    F**k 'em... You take steroids, I don't want you anywhere near the HOF. I don't care if some of may favorite players like say Piazza are the ones affected. I don't anyone who has ever taken steroids in the HOF. Period.


    2:22 AM

    Anonymous Dep said...

    hey mike. Regarding what i said in the previous thread about keith law and his flip flopping on gomez/garza.

    here's what he said in his 11/9 chat:

    Mike(NYC): Hey Mr.Law would you trade Gomez and Phillip Humber for Matt Garza and one of their relief arms?

    SportsNation Keith Law: No, Gomez is extremely raw but has a high enough ceiling that that's a poor risk for the Mets - Garza's got good stuff but isn't exactly a sure thing himself. And the Mets shouldn't deal Humber now while his value's a little down.

    a wee bit different. he calls just trading gomez a "poor risk" here and then a week later says "its a deal omar must make if he can"

    Oh well, I guess everyone flip flops, but its still disappointing from mr. law. i expect more from him or something i guess lol

    1:44 PM

    Blogger mr. met said...

    The A-Rod pic stays. It just proves the point he is a douche.

    Benny...you know Milledge won't even though he seems like a great fit.

    I would agree that Bonds has not built up a large amount of good will and you do need to weight out the consequences of how you treat people. He seems like a smart guy so it stands to reason he would have made better choices.

    Richie, that is quite a memory. I forgot about Benny heckling Barry.

    And yes, baseball should have handled this better. This Investigation would not even be going on if they went about things differently and I'm sure they are sorry they did no.

    ube, it will be interesting to see what names are named. Veeeeerrrry interesting.

    dep...that is disappointing. Law is pretty smart and usually does not do that. I could see if it was a year ago, but it was a week ago. I'd still do the move in a heartbeat if it was on the table.

    3:14 PM

    Anonymous Anonymous said...

    dep - on 11/9, Law was asked if he would trade Gomez AND Humber for Garza, and he said no. Yesterday, he said Omar should trade Gomez straight up for Garza. So, I don't think there's a flip-flop. Apparently, Law thinks Garza's value is slightly more than Gomez alone, but less than Gomez + Humber. Which is encouraging to me...

    No Torrealba?? Can't figure out how I feel about this. I guess (big surprise) it will depend on who we get (are stuck with?) to play catcher now and what it costs us. How about a combo move of Heilman to Texas for Gerald Laird and a B pitching prospect, and then Gomez plus that prospect to Minny for Garza, and move El Duque into pen to replace Heilman??


    6:19 PM

    Anonymous Anonymous said...

    Sorry, also saw/remembered the original 11/9 chat question had the Twins throwing in a relief arm as well. However, I think either Law took this as a token arm, he doesn't overly value decent (not good) relief pitching, or he just missed that part of the package...


    6:22 PM

    Anonymous orangeandblueblood said...

    If the Torrealba deal is dead a new catcher is needed. I hope the Mets wait and let the market develop. If the Padres do not offer Barret I say go after him. Since Castro is in the fold I think Barret is a good upside risk. If Barret is offered arbitration and would cost the Mets #22 pick and the Braves have signed Glavine Barret may still be an option since the Braves would give the Mets the #18 pick by signing Tom, Not So Terrific Glavine. I wouldn't complin if the Mets went for a solid defensive catcher with average offensive skills. Consider Mike Leiberthal or someone like him. A solid defensive catcher who would be cheap for a short term contract and up until last year was a .275 hitter with .315 OBP skills and more power than LoDuca. Better defense than LoDuca, better power and similar average and OBP skills and he could likely be had for a one year $2M deal. No matter what, the available catchers are all #8 hitters so why not get low cost, low years, and good defense. My preference would be Castro and Barret but I think the #18 and 22 pick in the draft may be worth Castro and Leiberthal.

    7:34 PM

    Anonymous benny blanco from da bronx said...

    Rich, what I said to Barry Bonds that day, in retrospect, was NOT cool. I'm not going to repeat what I said, it wasn't very nice and I'm embarassed and ashamed of what I said.

    No Torrealba? Wow, Christmas comes early, I am one happy camper.
    But with good news comes bad, the rumors are David Eckstein to the Mets? All I can say to that is... FAWK!
    Torrealba's shittyness would potentially be replaced with Eckstein's.
    I'm going to cop and paste what I wrote on John Delcos' blog because I am lazy.
    You know what I hate, when people point to David Eckstein’s “grit” and “hustle” when talking about how he’s a better option than Castillo.
    Besides the fact that Castillo is a better defender, has a stronger arm, faster, has played more games than him over the past few seasons, and is just much better offensively, he has that same “grit” and “hustle”!
    Did anyone watch the games last year? I don’t think I saw anyone besides David Wright play harder trying to win with every bone in his body than Luis Castillo.
    I mean of course if Castillo wants 4 years your going to have to pass but not for the substitution of an inferior Eckstein.
    Also, Eckstien a “winner”?
    Luis Castillo has 2 world series rings as well.
    The way I see it Eckstein=Castillo in the intangibles department. In the tangible/talent department, Castillo is MUCH better. Eckstein’s career high in OBP is a down year for Castillo.
    With that said if those 4 year deals for Castillo are true then Iguchi is my man. There's also the possibility of signing Marcus Giles on the cheap.
    And then there's Izturis, the type of player (at the very LEAST) we'd like A-Hern to become.

    1:12 AM

    Anonymous Two-By-Four said...

    Bonds was indicted, not because of his attitude towards the fans and media, but because he flipped off the Grand Jury. That’s a no-no and they will have his ass in a sling for that.

    A friend that is a Yankees fan was sitting next to me when we heard the news of the Mets pulling the plug on Torrealba and he couldn’t stop laughing for 45 minutes. Word from a poster at Metsblog that a Rockies blog indicates that Torrealba may be damaged goods or on that infamous to be released list.

    A-Rod is a mental case and has been and possibly still is under psychiatric care. His response to booing and post season criticism indicates he has problems with negativity. So I can understand negative comments about the way he left the Yankees could cause him to slither back. He’s simply a simpering, whimpering child with incredible baseball skills that will earn 27.5 million/year. I personally believe he would have been better off playing on the left coast. If he complains of being booed or of the pressure all I can say is fuck him. BTW from a business pov the Yankees continue to be the Microsoft of sports.

    2:43 AM

    Anonymous MikeinSpaininLA said...

    Is it just me, or was Castro our best hitter at times last year? Sure, we need a backup, but why pay someone of equal or less talent more money when we've already got a capable guy?

    I hadn't heard any speculation on Garza, but he is really good. Gotta take young studs in the AL getting pounded a bit when they come up with a grain of salt - it's a much tougher league. But Garza throws 95+ with control. I'll take him over Gomez+ by a longshot. Though I still think Omar should start barking up the Ervin Santana tree...

    Gotta say, I'm not into any big trade for Johan or anyone else we wouldn't control for more than a year.

    9:19 PM

    Anonymous DG said...

    Hey guys, I'm back from China and through the jet lag. Looks like we made a trade:

    The Braves will announce Monday that they've signed Tom Glavine to a one-year, $8 million contract.
    $8 million for Glavine is pretty good. What does hurt is that the Braves are giving their rivals a first-round pick here, especially since Andruw Jones will only bring a supplemental pick in return (and that's if he's offered arbitration). The Mets will also get a supplemental pick after the first round.

    18th pick of the first round and a supplemental for an old man with little margin for success ain't bad at all!

    6:39 AM

    Anonymous jake said...

    re, bonds...

    let's not forget this is the guy that beats down his girl in public, etc, etc, etc.

    benny, don't be ashamed...

    when i was a uva and fl state had bobby sura playing we used to heckle him so bad from the front rows of the student section while he was trying to shoot foul shots. theme: gerbils!

    10:56 AM

    Anonymous Anonymous said...

    So long Tommy! Thanks for all the (shitty) memories!!

    - Nokes

    8:25 AM

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