A blog dedicated to the New York Mets with some other baseball thrown in.

Tuesday, June 17, 2008

Keep Moving...There Is Nothing To See Here....

Ding Dong! The Witch is dead. Which old Witch? The Wicked Witch!

I somehow feel vindicated and applaud my own steel resolve. I was berated at times and called many unspeakable things for keeping my cause alive, but it is finally over. However, I think the Mets sort of handled this badly to put it mildly. There were plenty of reasons to get rid of Willie, but at 3:15 AM East Coast time?

I was sleeping parallel to the foot of my bed with the TV on and my blow up doll still on the bed with a few frozen bananas laying around. I was in one of those in and out of consciousness states and then I heard the news that Willie was fired. No shit, I thought I was dreaming. I gave the old one eye squinting/half sleeping stare at the TV and indeed, Willie was gone.



I smiled a bit and then it dawned on me that this team is run by a group of absolute morons. There were plenty of times to give Willie his walking papers and the Mets wait until after the 1st game of a West Coast trip while the Mets are in the midst of a streak where they had just won 3 or 4 games. Fucking ponderous.

I wanted this to happened I believe this team needed a shake up, but this is how they decided to do it? Why didn't they do it before the team left Anaheim or weeks earlier when everyone knew this needed to happen. I guess I should expect this from my team and it is hard for me to complain now that my man Ken Oberkfell is up in the bigs and ready to jump on that managerial position this off-season. I guess I should not concern myself about the 'why' at this point and just focus on the 'fuck yeah'. Winning cures all and this will be a figment of our little imaginations if the Mets do just that.


As for Jerry, he is not chopped liver (a little bonus story about Willie being confused in there). From '98 to '03, he owned a 500-471 record which is good for a .515 winning%. He finished 2nd, 2nd, 1st, 3rd, 2nd, and 2nd during his reign as a manager and has four winning seasons on his resume with two losing seasons with one AL manager of the year award in 2000. The team is familiar with him and he is familiar with the team so I am optimistic that things will go as smoothly as they can.

As for Peterson, it seems there were other factors at play with him. The Mets have done well under his watch in terms of pitching, but Mulder and Hudson had issues with him and it is very possible that he rubbed a lot of pitchers and other people in the organization the wrong way. I liked him and will be unhappy to see him go, but it seems to me that people were maybe sick of him and felt a change was needed there.

* * *

  • Some people just don't get it.

    mets33196 Jun 16, 2008 11:01:50 AM Report Offensive Post
    its no big secret Baseball is a white man sport...just look at the fan crowds...especially Shea. Most bloggers here are white...therefore the FIRE Minaya / Randolph cries. Its only because Minaya is Hispanic and Randolph black. And u most of u bloggers 99% are illiterate ignorant I D I O T S with no life. I am a white hispanic by the way....but most of u people are racist against hispanics....and blacks...bottom line. I bet u all believe Clemens is innocent and pure, yet Bonds is guilty from day one. U made that decision from day one....before the facts., yet Clemens the Bush lover Texan is still considered innocent. McNamee GOOOD JOB !!!!!!!!! and Good Luck


    Really? I mean, really?

  • This is a very amusing story.

  • There are so many things wrong with this article I hardly know where to start.

    Another coach who could be in jeopardy may be first-base coach Tom Nieto. If Nieto is fired, that could be viewed as a warning shot by Randolph, as Nieto and Randolph have a solid working relationship from their days together with the Yankees. But at this point, Randolph doesn't need any more warning shots.

    If this had happened, it would have been deplorable. This team needed a shake up and it was going to come in the form of firing your first base coach to send your incompetent manager a message? What exactly would that do for Randolph? I am to believe that is going to make him better? Getting rid of him was the right thing to do.

  • Ted Berg has a nice article about the state of the Mets.


  • Beltran and Heilman helped out the Mets efforts to try and end the game with more runs on the board than the other team. It is good to see Beltran's average inch up more his power numbers increase as well. His OPS+ is equal to his 2007 OPS+ when he knocked 33 homers and drove in 112 runs, so I think he is doing a bit better than many people think.

  • Buster attempt to layout what possibly goes on in the Mets personnel meetings but comes eerily close to what my actual relationship sounds like.

    The personnel meetings the Mets hold are said by participants to run on for hours, the discussion often turning circular and pointless. And maybe that's when it starts to happen in their organization when they get to the point where the staff members are so beaten down emotionally and intellectually that they don't have the ability to stand up and scream: Are you people crazy? Are you serious? Because this is a really bad idea -- no, no, wait, let's go one step further: It's really just flat-out nuts.

    Scary. But one does have to wonder what the hell is going on in those meetings? Randolph should have been gone long ago and they certainly have had better opportunities to do so. I mean, they do have to consider the PR aspect of things, no?
  • Labels: ,

    78 Comments:

    Blogger almar said...

    Mr. Met, we were waiting for you to respond, but we realize now why you were slow to the response to last night's happenings. LOL!

    Be that as it may, I think we are all in agreement, that this was handled like a bunch of fuckin' idiots. And because of it, they are rightly being torn a new one by everyone in the media. They deserved to be ripped. This is just another example and symptom of this franchise's approach to handling even the simplest of internal or team issues.

    Oh and Mr. Mets, don't hold your breath yet on Obie being manager just because he was brought up. The Mets could easily fuck that up as well. Would you be surprised if they didn't?

    Jerry Manuel, for all intents and purposes, is a lateral move for this team. Laid back and calming influence is his reputation. Yeah, just what this team needs (rolling eyes). Why not just have Obie take over? I mean what the fuck?!

    I still think Hojo and Alomar should have gone too. If you are going to fire Willie and the pitching coach, fire them all and start from scratch!

    This is just the Mets way of doing things, kind of like the slow kid who lives on the corner house.

    12:03 PM

     
    Blogger almar said...

    "Scary. But one does have to wonder what the hell is going on in those meetings? Randolph should have been gone long ago and they certainly have had better opportunities to do so. I mean, they do have to consider the PR aspect of things, no?"

    This nothing new. They love to embarrass themselves. Gil Hodges must be rolling in his grave.

    I hope Omar take a hit with his job. Just clean out the whole entire fuckin' house and start again. The culture of this team wil not change. Too bad we can't fire Jeff as well (whom I think was the mastermind to this whole approach).

    Mickey Mouse outfit. Geez.

    12:08 PM

     
    Blogger mr. met said...

    I agree Manuel could be a lateral move, but Willie was stubborn, played favorites, and a bad manager.

    Zen like is not bad, but if you do not cause friction and are better at certain aspects of dealing with personalities, it might work out.

    I remain optimistic.

    You would think they love to embarass themselves with the they work.

    12:14 PM

     
    Blogger almar said...

    "Zen like is not bad, but if you do not cause friction and are better at certain aspects of dealing with personalities, it might work out. "

    Except that it might not matter. The Mets issues go way beyond managerial at this point. It is a roster issue. Which is why Omar can now step up to the spotlight with the target solely on his forehead.

    "I remain optimistic."

    I am 50/50 at this point. I mean, if they are "grooming" Obie, why not just hire him now for the role? Or are they setting Manuel up for failure as well, which would ultimately lead to Omar's canning?

    "You would think they love to embarass themselves with the they work."

    I could post a long list of things that strengthen the case that the Mets franchise are run by dopes. But I will end up jumping in front of traffic afterwards.

    12:26 PM

     
    Blogger mr. met said...

    But EVERYONE thought the Mets had a good roster...fans...experts...projections based off stats...

    Why is Omar the villan here?

    12:31 PM

     
    Anonymous mikeinspaininla said...

    I realize we live in an age where the sports media thinks itself more important than actual sports, but I really couldn't give a shit about the Mets firing Willie overnight, through press release. Is it a retarded way of doing business? You bet it is. Has he been making a shitload of money to stand in the dugout and look serious for a few years and will continue being paid through the season? Uh, yeah. As a fan, all I care about is the team on the field, so screw Wilpon and Willie and whoever else wants to tell me how embarrassing my team is acting. All I'm embarrassed about is Mike Pelfrey's lack of a strikeout pitch.

    12:31 PM

     
    Anonymous chris said...

    I mean, they do have to consider the PR aspect of things, no?

    Yes. And that's my real problem with this. What in the name of Sweet Baby Jesus is going through these fucktards' heads? Can they do absolutely nothing right? I mean, c'mon guys! I can forgive crappy slogans and monkey-assed songs, but firing an inept if loveable manager of a severely underperforming team is really not a diffcult task, for christ's sake.

    In a way, I feel bad for Jay Horowitz. I'm sure he has zero say in how this stuff goes down, and is probably treated like a doddering old fool in those front offices. That's part of the problem here, and it's a huge problem, if you ask me. They just can't get their PR shit together, and it's infuriating. Do you guys not realize, after all these years, how to operate in New York? Really?

    They finally make the right move, and they bungle it up so completely that Willie comes out smelling like roses. William "Bill Webb's Camera Angles are Racist and What's a Double Switch" Randolph looks like the poor, crapped upon family man here, when it was obvious to everybody (even me!) that he needed to go.

    Really, this was brilliantly played by Willie. No doubt he got word that it was coming, and chose - for the first time in his managerial career - to adapt. He loosened up in the press conferences, joked with reporters, and won their hearts and minds over the last couple of days. In a way, he forced their hand, because they couldn't have him out there yucking it up with the beat reporters any longer. Willie absolutely got the last laugh here, and won the PR battle in a rout.

    That, to me, is what's so infernally awful about all this. It could not have been fucked up more completely. Nice job, guys.

    Now can we win some goddamn ballgames, or what?

    12:32 PM

     
    Anonymous benny blanco from da bronx said...

    Firing Willie Randolph is simply correcting a mistake. Correcting something that never should have happened to begin with.

    In addition to firing eveyrone the Mets need a roster overhaul. WHatever the hell that means...

    Uhh what is mets33196 talking about? haha.

    12:39 PM

     
    Blogger mr. met said...

    All I'm embarrassed about is Mike Pelfrey's lack of a strikeout pitch.

    True, but that has been getting better. He's been actually missing bats lately! I still remain optimistic!!!

    but firing an inept if loveable manager of a severely underperforming team is really not a diffcult task, for christ's sake.

    That is the truthful statement of the day my man. Straight truth from your fingers to god's eyes.

    12:41 PM

     
    Blogger mr. met said...

    Yeah Benny...As a Hispanic, do you feel anyone is being racist (not here specifically)? I would tend to think not since you agreed with the move as well!

    12:41 PM

     
    Blogger almar said...

    "But EVERYONE thought the Mets had a good roster...fans...experts...projections based off stats...

    Why is Omar the villan here?"

    I can only speak for myself, but I just don't like the guy, and even though he will survive the axe short of this team falling even further into the depths of embarrassment, we now get to see Omar sweat now that he doesn't have a fall-guy.

    Just feel dissappointed in how this went about.

    12:46 PM

     
    Blogger mr. met said...

    Oh, that's fine. I can understand you not liking him for whatever reason, but based on his roster contruction of 2008? The team won 93 games in '06, 88 in '07, and added Church and Santana, which made the team better.

    I mean, how can you kill him for that. I know the manager and the GM get credit for wins and losses and I am glazing Willie over here, but I thought he was terrible from day #1 and I believe the roster that the GM has is much more important than the manager.

    Therefore, more credit goes to the GM for winning and losing. And I also think Willie should not manager this team. Omar gets a pass and if '09 we are in the same boat, he needs to go.

    12:48 PM

     
    Anonymous tc said...

    Really, this was brilliantly played by Willie. No doubt he got word that it was coming, and chose - for the first time in his managerial career - to adapt. He loosened up in the press conferences, joked with reporters, and won their hearts and minds over the last couple of days. In a way, he forced their hand, because they couldn't have him out there yucking it up with the beat reporters any longer. Willie absolutely got the last laugh here, and won the PR battle in a rout.

    Sadly, you are 1,000% correct.

    Manuel is a placeholder. No chance they'd completely decimate the entire staff mid-season. They brought in a few in-house guys. If they don't make the playoffs, Manuel is gone, removed from the interim role, and they'll fill it with either Oberkfell or go completely outside the organization. Simple as that.

    Omar really had no choice. Shoot or be shot, pretty much. If he keeps Willie, his ass is gone with him after the next 5 game losing streak.

    Hopefully this invigorates someone and encourages them to go out there and play their asses off, or they'll be next. If they're under .500 at the all-star break, they're selling moderately and getting whatever they can get back to "re-tool" for next year. God knows they can't make a splash, they don't have the chips.

    The bad thing here is, they should have waited until the off day between this series and Colorado. The move last night was so poorly conceived, it's shocking. This is a professional sports team, and they sent a mass e-mail to the media with a PDF press release at 3:15am EST? As someone in the media and communication field for a few years, that's despicable.

    We all knew it was coming, but they really fucked up with the implementation of the transition.

    12:59 PM

     
    Anonymous seattle steve said...

    Letting Willie go should of happened 2 weeks ago, not the way it was done last night.... Omar's line of defense is gone and he is now on the HOT SEAT.

    12:59 PM

     
    Anonymous Mookie Mouse said...

    The Mets staff meeting you describe reminds me of a cartoon I once saw that depicted a group of people meeting in a hallway with the lead individual addressing the others. The caption read “The purpose of our meeting in a hallway is to determine why we are meeting in a hallway.”

    The Mets with their actions have actually made the New York Yankees and Madison Square Garden organizations appear classy and well run in comparison. James Dolan must be smiling.

    I find it difficult to believe that the Mets are capable of building a winning franchise to be envied by other organizations. The Wilpons should have stayed in the investment business.

    1:10 PM

     
    Anonymous benny blanco from da bronx said...

    Well, its finally over, I'm actually excited about the new, New, NEW, Mets.

    I hope they win 30 in a row.

    1:12 PM

     
    Anonymous benny blanco from da bronx said...

    "Madison Square Garden organizations appear classy and well run in comparison. "

    No... c'mon! Stop it.

    As far as the Yankees go, do the past 5 years of Joe Torre being manager sound familiar to the Mets, right now? lol.

    1:14 PM

     
    Blogger almar said...

    "Therefore, more credit goes to the GM for winning and losing."

    Well based on that logic Mr. Met, Omar should be awaken at 4:00 am tomorrow morning with a phone call telling him he is fired. I mean they have been mediocre for the last 162 games.

    "And I also think Willie should not manager this team."

    Well I don't think anyone here disagrees with that fact.

    "Omar gets a pass and if '09 we are in the same boat, he needs to go."

    Omar does get a pass. Although I think it has more to do with the fact that replacing a GM in mid-season is much harder than replacing a manager. Although if this team turns into one big cluster fuck of ineptitude the rest of this season, I would no rule out Omar getting fired at the end, to punctuate this season. It would take balls of steel from the ownership though, so there goes my theory.

    Let's just say that Omar's stock may have dropped in the eyes of ownership, I bet.

    1:14 PM

     
    Blogger mr. met said...

    TC...well said and at least Obbie is now a recognizable face in case they use him whereas before, he was a no name even though he wasn't.

    mookie...how about some optimism? The Mets are World Class! World Class I tell you!

    almar, yes Omar is at fault, but my point is that he was not the only one who thought he had the right pieces in place. Who was calling for his head prior to the season?

    I agree his stock dropped, but it has not gone OTC just yet.

    1:30 PM

     
    Anonymous ossy said...

    this stuff about omar being fired is retarded. if you come here and say he should, u r a retard

    im puerto rican and i hate clemens and relish his fall from grace. i knew bonds was on juice but he was a HOFer b4 that. he is also being treated unfairly.

    thank god willie is gone.

    can we get rid of delgado now?

    1:39 PM

     
    Blogger almar said...

    "this stuff about omar being fired is retarded. if you come here and say he should, u r a retard"

    Resorting to calling someone else "retarded" because you don't agree is very,...well, very,...Mets-like. (in other words STUPID).

    Believe me. I disagree with many points on here as well as agree with, but you don't see me lobbying childish retorts in 'net speak like "u r a retard"

    I would say grow up, but that wouldn't be my style.

    We do see eye-to-eye on a couple of things though:

    1. I am Boriqua
    2. I hate Clemens as well.
    3. We should get rid of Delgado,…like yesterday.

    1:54 PM

     
    Blogger almar said...

    "I agree his stock dropped, but it has not gone OTC just yet."

    No. it hasn't.

    …not yet.

    Love hte Wall Street reference there. Appropriate don't you think? Like the economy, the Mets Franchise is slowly going down the shitter unless something happens beyond just firing a manager that should have been fired months ago.

    1:59 PM

     
    Blogger Anthony said...

    Man o man. This organization is a trip. What a bunch of absolute bozos. I know Fred Wilpon made a ton of cash and was a big success at real estate, but WOW, what an absolute moron him and his son are at running a baseball franchise. You have these guys get done playing a double header, get them on a plane, fly them all the way out to west coast overnight, play a game (and win) and then fire them at 3AM there time. That is just so lame it's beyond words. Classless. I went off on Willie yesterday and wanted him fired and said I didn't feel bad for him. But nobody deserves this kind of bullshit. What a bunch of assholes the Wilpons are. And unfortunately every sports ownership family who has to son take over end up running things even further into the ground...Jim Dolan, Hank Jr Boss, Jeff Wilpon. Sucks.

    As far as Omar goes, he obviously doesn't have full autonomy. At least I hope not. Because if he really supported handling these firings this way, then I have lost just about all respect I had for him and may soon be on the Almar bandwagon. I thought Omar had more style, class, respect, brains, you name it than to pull off such a pussy bullshit stunt like this crap. All to try to hope it's not backpage news the next morning? What a joke.

    Glad Obie's finally up with the club. Trot Nixon in the clubhouse is nice as well. Now if they want to truly put a stamp on this statement...release Delgado. Make a real player move and show that the stench of the last year will not be tolerated anymore. If I'm Omar, I say fuck it, take the gloves off and just start throwing down. Call up Carp and get a Kevin Millar to platoon with him. Really shake it up. Trade Heilman for some younger pieces. Call up Muniz.

    2:06 PM

     
    Anonymous someone said...

    Willie should have been fired -- well, years ago, but more recently -- the instant he tried to pull the race crap.

    Omar's been on a cold streak, but what evidence do we have that Mets brass would install/give power to anyone who'd be better?

    2:11 PM

     
    Anonymous tc said...

    Like the economy, the Mets Franchise is slowly going down the shitter unless something happens beyond just firing a manager that should have been fired months ago.

    While I like the analogy, the sad reality is that the Mets don't give a shit if the p.r. windfall from firing Willie is bad. In fact, winning ballgames probably isn't their #1 priority. While it is and certainly ought to be up there, SNY, and their new stadium are what is really the true cash cows for the Wilpons and Sterlind, not the team itself.

    While they invest $140 in players, the true money is coming from television sales, and new stadium revenue (thanks, Citi!).

    Of course, if the team sucks, people won't go to games, and your point becomes very, very valid. But in the short term, they're going to be selling out Citi Field next year almost every single game whether they are awesome or mediocre, it's as simple as that. The only reason I bought full season tickets this year was for next year, and even though they suck right now, I still go to games, and will continue next year, partly because of the allure of Citi, and partly because I really am a fan.

    Win or lose, can't turn your back. That's what being a fan is all about. Of course, I'm not saying that if they go 20 under .500, I wouldn't reconsider buying season tickets, though.

    2:12 PM

     
    Blogger almar said...

    "As far as Omar goes, he obviously doesn't have full autonomy. At least I hope not. Because if he really supported handling these firings this way, then I have lost just about all respect I had for him"

    Omar better hope Manuel becomes the second coming of Jack McKeon. (Not only for his sake, but for the sake of Mets fans who have to endure 2/3 of the season still). I really honestly don't think the Wilpons will deal with a losing season with no post-season this year, regardless of whatever "street cred" Omar may have had with the Wilpons.

    Although I have a feeling Fred is not exactly overjoyed at how Omar dealt with this and the hit the organization is taking in the wake of how they handled it.

    2:15 PM

     
    Anonymous tc said...

    And just to back up my points, this is evidence (it's been posted here before):

    "The New York Mets were second at $824 million and the Boston Red Sox third at $816 million, the magazine said Wednesday. After that, there was a big gap to the Los Angeles Dodgers ($694 million) and the Chicago Cubs ($642 million

    The Yankees were listed by Forbes as having $327 million in revenue last year and a $47.3 million operating loss.

    The Mets had an operating profit of $32.9 million, according to Forbes. Boston, according to Forbes, had a $19.1 million operating loss."

    Mets are making millions and millions despite the team's caliber. And Freddie Coupons has made absurd returns on his initial investment / buyout of Doubleday. Like it or not, he's still an investment genius.

    The Yanks

    2:16 PM

     
    Blogger almar said...

    "Glad Obie's finally up with the club."

    He should have been manager from day one. But we knew the Willie and Omar show was more about the "show" aspects (Two NY born boys, black and hispanic make it big) than about quality and leadership they needed in the wake of Art Howe.

    But I have a feeling that the Mets will probably go for the big sexy name for permanent manager after the season. This is just their style.

    I hope this is not true though. It would be like perpetuating the cycle of violence to our senses.

    2:20 PM

     
    Anonymous department of self serving references said...

    Just had to repost this as I think the guy is the biggest fucking chump in NY:

    "SNY will go live at 1 pm EDT today with coverage labeled, “The Mets in Transition,” featuring all sorts of guests, which will air up until the team’s press conference at 5 pm EDT.

    …i’m heading to the studio now, as i anticipate being on air a bit today…hopefully, i keep it together…i’m quite emotional."

    Give him some Kleenex and put a diaper on him! Teach him how to write commentary without "golly," "gee," and "shucks" being inferred. Douchebag.

    11:25 AM

    2:23 PM

     
    Blogger almar said...

    "Win or lose, can't turn your back. That's what being a fan is all about. Of course, I'm not saying that if they go 20 under .500, I wouldn't reconsider buying season tickets, though."

    No one is advocating turning their back. I have been a fan for 40+ years. Waaaaay too long to let the stupid shenanigans turn me away. But doesn't mean we have to take the crap the front office is slapping on our plates in the guise of how they operate this franchise.

    2:24 PM

     
    Blogger almar said...

    "But I have a feeling that the Mets will probably go for the big sexy name for permanent manager after the season. This is just their style.

    I hope this is not true though. It would be like perpetuating the cycle of violence to our sense"

    Let me amend this statement: I would be curious to see what Bobby Valentine would do with this club the second time around.

    2:27 PM

     
    Anonymous benny blanco from da bronx said...

    TC, the Mets were the second most profitable team in the entire major leagues. FIrst place went to the Florida Marlins as being the most profitable. Surprise? Not really if you think about it.

    Anyways, these quotes are per Metsblog:

    "from what i understand, Jeff Wilpon, and other members of the front office, did not want Willie Randolph to return as the team’s manager following last season’s collapse…

    …i believe he and others felt that randolph didn’t deserve to return, and that the entire organization would never turn the page while under the same leadership"


    Seems like Jeffy was right! AMazing isn't it? For as much as people don't like Jeff and Fred. It seems like they were right! The team DIDNT turn the page.
    This goes to Omar as well, he should have taken that feeling to heart as many felt that the team woudln't be able to turn the page with the same player personnel. Bringing back Castillo and keeping guys like Delgado, among others.

    This stuck out,

    "they have long questioned his ability to be a leader…"

    Really? Where does this questioning come from? Maybe the part that shows Willie's never ever been a leader before! SHOCKER!

    If you read the rest of the story on metsblog with Cerrone's "insight" it seems that it was more about Omar standing in the way from Willie getting fired which shows some sort of class from Omar's point of view and he was the only reason Willie even had his job in April. Meanwhile the dirtbag seems to be Jeff Wilpon who pressured Omar and probably leaked the firing thing to the press in some capacity.

    2:29 PM

     
    Blogger almar said...

    " it seems that it was more about Omar standing in the way from Willie getting fired which shows some sort of class from Omar's point of view"

    Perhaps,…but you can look at it from another angle,…it might show that the fact that Omar allowing Willie to manage this long, was a huge flaw in his abilities as a GM and tremendously bad judgement on his behalf.

    2:34 PM

     
    Anonymous tc said...

    The more information that leaks out during the day, it seems like Omar dug his own grave with the Willie situation.

    So the front office and Jeff Wilpon wanted Willie out, and Omar wanted to keep him on. Even if Omar still had Fred's support after the collapse, that had to have evaporated once Willie played the race card and got on SNY.

    So pretty much, with no one left to support Willie but Omar, he did what anyone in the business world would do ... he made a move to save himself in the short-term. I have to think, from what I've read, that despite his good work here, if this team finishes the way it has started, Omar will be joining Willie, Rick, and Tom.

    2:36 PM

     
    Blogger almar said...

    "I have to think, from what I've read, that despite his good work here, if this team finishes the way it has started, Omar will be joining Willie, Rick, and Tom."

    I know that a lot of people on this wonderful blog (gratuitous suck-up) may not want to hear it or think it is ludicrous, but this may end up being the reality. Regardless of what good movies Omar has done, if this team fails to right itself this season I honestly think the Wilpon's will fire Omar and start fresh in the off-season.

    2:44 PM

     
    Anonymous benny blanco from da bronx said...

    "the fact that Omar allowing Willie to manage this long, was a huge flaw in his abilities as a GM and tremendously bad judgement on his behalf."

    I agree. What the hell was he thinking when he hired him?
    Willie Randolph had as much experience leading a group of baseball player's as I have! 0! I've never done and neither have

    Also, LOL@every single media member on the East Coast being pissed as hell that the Mets fired Willie at "3am" of course that's the East Coast bias as it was a little closer to midnight for the West Coast... ya know where the Mets were. It's not like they awoke him in the middle of his beauty sleep.
    They're just pissed they missed their newspaper deadline. The media had been jizzing their pants over the past half a year over the story of firing Willie.

    Hell, Ken Rosenthal is talking right now on SNY and saying that the abd part was not firing Willie but the "timing" and then he goes off on this thing about the fact it was done at 3am EST. So obviously whatever the guys in the media tell you its not about the person getting fired or WHY he got fired but because of the fact it couldn't be on the Tuesdays newspaper.
    Ken Rosenthal is proving that its all about self-interest.

    "Why couldn't they do it today at 5pm? With the press conference"
    Like seriously? Stop being a whiney douche Kenny.

    2:47 PM

     
    Blogger almar said...

    Benny, I am more pissed about the way the entire situation was handled for the last month or so, than the whole 3:00 am thing. Although that 3:00 am issue pissed me off in terms of another example of the amateurish way the Mets handle things instead of growing a pair.

    2:57 PM

     
    Blogger Sidd Finch said...

    Actually, maybe the Mets did Willie a favor, as he had already completed his press conference by then, and could get out of Dodge.

    They're just pissed they missed their newspaper deadline. The media had been jizzing their pants over the past half a year over the story of firing Willie.

    The media will just have to settle for sloppy seconds at the 5PM news conference on this one.

    Second coming of Jack McKeon, or Joe Morgan first 20 games for the Sox in '88 would be nice.

    Jobu would be angry if they trade Delgado, hahahaha.

    3:07 PM

     
    Blogger Sidd Finch said...

    that 3:00 am issue pissed me off in terms of another example of the amateurish way the Mets handle things instead of growing a pair.

    They have always been the red haired stepchild, and they always will be.

    3:09 PM

     
    Blogger almar said...

    "They have always been the red haired stepchild, and they always will be."

    I disagree Sid. 1985 thru 1990 they dominated NYC on all aspects. The Yankees, who won 90+ games a couple of times during that stretch, were nothing more than an afterthought.

    3:19 PM

     
    Blogger almar said...

    And don't tell me they were the red-headed step child when they won the 1969 WS. Hell, I don't even think anyone went to YS that year. LOL!

    3:20 PM

     
    Anonymous tc said...

    Neyer Says:

    "Terrence (NYC): The Mets should go against every inkling of their beliefs, tendencies, and beliefs- and hire Wally Backman. Pull a George Costanza, and just do the opposite. He's exactly what this team needs.

    SportsNation Rob Neyer: Perhaps. If the Mets don't make a strong second-half push, Manuel's probably gone. And maybe Backman is just what the millionaires need."

    "Russell NY, NY: So does this mean the Fire Minaya clock starts ticking? I hope it does. He left this team aged, in shambles, and w/ very little in the way of prospects. Basically everything he said he wouldn't do when he took this job. Also would love to see Hernandez as a coach.

    SportsNation Rob Neyer: As I noted earlier, it's not often that a GM is fired in the middle of a season (Bavasi being an obvious exception). But yes, I suspect that if the Mets don't do well over the next few months then Minaya's outta there."

    3:26 PM

     
    Anonymous benny blanco from da bronx said...

    Almar, you may have issue with that, as do I!!! I agree with you!

    But then again, to be fair if the reason I'm understanding, for this going on for so long is because the owners wanted him gone while the GM lobbied hard for him to stay then I could understand the way it happened. And again, if Jeff intentionally leaked things out there then that's REALLY dirtbag and it should make one guy look bad not an organization.

    However, please NOTE the angle the media is taking on this. Basically non-Met fans, the casual guys, that's the story they're given and what they're reading.
    "Oh... how could they ever fire someone at 3am EST!? They should have done it today at 5pm" blah, blah, blah. Again, these media guys are blatantly saying its not about them firing him, why they fired him, and they're BARELY mentioning the way the Mets went about it. Thier approach is the actual East Coast time he got fired. Me and alot of others are seeing right through this.

    3:30 PM

     
    Anonymous department of self serving references said...

    Coupla thoughts:

    Firstly, I don't see Jeff Wilpon as the devil for the way the firing went about. If the Mets had followed owners lead in the first place, the team would have had a completely different manager in April. He was right in this instance, incredible as it sounds.

    Where upper management has gone wrong from the moment it became clear that the team was closer to the limelight than anyone would have thought was changing the basis of Omar's original promise to build a balanced team of youth and experience. "Win now" has meant the team has not gone the distance in developing talent which spirals out of course to the team continuing to sign older talent instead of say giving someone like Ruben Gotay a chance to prove them right (in which case, um, well, you've got Orlando Hudson as a FA next year and he's still young). 2006 may have been the worst thing to happen to Omar and the Wilpons. They altered the plan. So, essentially there is little difference between the current mindset and the mindset that traded the team's top prospect for an injured pitcher. (Sorry, I know that's a low blow but go ahead, tell me that I'm wrong!)

    Secondly, why do we assume that these players are going to sweat being traded if the team doesn't improve? Excepting Reyes, Wright and a couple of guys who the team will not trade, I don't think anyone's going to feel that pressure. I mean, they are all getting paid and have played their share in other cities anyway!

    That last said, there is plenty of reason to think that the team is better today than it was yesterday. Manuel may be laid back but the guy is going to know what he's doing tactically. Willie knew nothing about relating to players. The seemingly arrogant demeanor he had with the media was not an isolated character aspect, it was the main aspect. This team is better today, and ultimately, that's what is going to keep Omar in a job.

    And lastly, the thing that pissed me off the most about Willie's racist statements is that the Mets are so clearly not racist - nor are their announcers - and I'd hedge the majority of the fans are not either. He should have been fired right there for not even knowing why the small metropolitans- thinking minority (that of course is the majority here) knew he was the wrong guy in 2005. The guy had no idea what was wrong. Fucking fatal flaw: he couldn't relate.

    And this is not as bad as the Joe Torre Death Watch. This was pathetic but it was not pathological as the JTDW was. The Wilpons are not geniuses at anything beyond making money (and the Mets are making them tons of money and even more when they sell!). They lack a certain sense of how to run things, yes, and their big problem is trying to act like they know. A smart ownership would delegate in that situation, not insist on being a part of the decision making process.

    But remember also, the Wilpons also signed the first Hispanic to be GM and the first black manager in NY. And frankly that is something they have right to be proud about regardless of how the managerial part of those hirings has worked out!

    3:31 PM

     
    Blogger almar said...

    "And again, if Jeff intentionally leaked things out there then that's REALLY dirtbag and it should make one guy look bad not an organization."

    Problem is, Jeff Wilpon (for better or worse) IS the organization. So his actions cannot be isolated from the entire franchise.

    3:36 PM

     
    Blogger almar said...

    "But remember also, the Wilpons also signed the first Hispanic to be GM and the first black manager in NY. And frankly that is something they have right to be proud about regardless of how the managerial part of those hirings has worked out!"

    Can't agree with you on that.

    I am hispanic and I have to say that if that was the premise of hiring Both Omar and Willie, then it was a bad premise to begin with. I would prefer they hire the RIGHT people, regardless of background.

    More and more I keep thinking that the Omar ann Willie show was more about the "story" they created than about the actual acumen to run this club. But that's just me.

    3:40 PM

     
    Blogger almar said...

    ""But remember also, the Wilpons also signed the first Hispanic to be GM and the first black manager in NY. And frankly that is something they have right to be proud about regardless of how the managerial part of those hirings has worked out!"

    Can't agree with you on that."

    Let me amend what I said (which came out wrong)

    Yes they can be proud of this fact, but not if that was the premise of their hiring, overlooking their "skill sets"

    3:46 PM

     
    Anonymous Mookie Mouse said...

    Obscured by the travesty of the way the Willie firing was handled was Heilman coming into the game in the bottom of the 7th with 1st and 3rd and 1 out and striking out VG and TH. The significant part other than the fact that Heilman was successful was he got VG with his slider and TH with the change. This gives Heilman 3 effective pitches and they should really think about starting him.

    3:47 PM

     
    Anonymous department of self serving references said...

    Almar, can't say anything about whether it was all for show (though sometimes show is what makes for groudbreaking anyway), but I do agree with the comment about "skill sets." That's where things go off base because Willie had no experience except as a coach. Omar had a more than decent (albeit without need for a rear view mirror given the circumstances of the Expos) record. Omar may well turn out to be no different than the guy who ran the Expos, but he deserved the shot. Willie was a hunch, one of those George Bush hunches, one that eventually gets you in trouble...

    4:11 PM

     
    Anonymous ossy said...

    heilman was no joke last night

    wut gets me about the firing is that the timing was off. not bc it was done at 3am, but bc it wasnt done on october 1, 2008.

    4:17 PM

     
    Anonymous Pavan said...

    Who would've thought on the day Randolph gets fired, everybody gets all pissy? The media, and anybody upset about it needs to gain some perspective.

    Yeah, it should have been handled much better. As mike said it, though:
    Ding Dong, the witch is dead!

    I, for one, am rejoicing... at least for now. Enjoy the moment... screw all else. LETS GO METS!

    4:25 PM

     
    Blogger almar said...

    "The significant part other than the fact that Heilman was successful was he got VG with his slider and TH with the change. This gives Heilman 3 effective pitches and they should really think about starting him."

    I agree. But that boat sailed with this fuckin' front office.

    I know he was effective as a reliever a couple of seasons ago, but starting pitching is at a premium with this team.

    Arguably another example of their ineptness.

    4:33 PM

     
    Blogger Sidd Finch said...

    I disagree Sid. 1985 thru 1990 they dominated NYC on all aspects. The Yankees, who won 90+ games a couple of times during that stretch, were nothing more than an afterthought.

    And don't tell me they were the red-headed step child when they won the 1969 WS. Hell, I don't even think anyone went to YS that year. LOL!

    Good points, almar. I guess I'm still emotionally scarred from June 15, 1977. It seems like every time the Mets make a move towards being relvant in NYC (1969&73, 1985-90, 99-00), they manage to frig it up somehow. Anyhow, 9 years out of 47 with this fan base leaves something to be desired. I thought they had turned the corner with Omar as GM. In reality, they had 2 great GM's (Cashen and Devine), and a lot of mediocrity.

    Hell, even Cashen made mistakes as GM, and he almost walked on water, as far as I was concerned (Mitchell for McReynolds, trading Dykstra)

    At any rate, I'd never go over to the dark side. It would be hard to be a Mets fan and root for the Wankers too.

    4:38 PM

     
    Blogger Sidd Finch said...

    "Win now" has meant the team has not gone the distance in developing talent which spirals out of course to the team continuing to sign older talent instead of say giving someone like Ruben Gotay a chance to prove them right

    We'll find out if that was because Willie wouldn't play the young guys, or this is Omar's philosophy.

    4:41 PM

     
    Anonymous tc said...

    Omar says he had to fire Willie last night because of all the leaks from internally within the organization.

    He's taking responsibility for the leaks, saying they have to work on it and that it's not the way things should be run.

    He says that if it wasn't for all of the leaks, then he wouldn't have had to make it last night at 3am; he feared that sources would have went to the media before Willie would have found out. According to Omar, he had an agreement with Willie to tell him before anyone else found out, so third parties leaking forced his hand last night after the game.

    Says Manuel is there for the rest of year (we knew this).

    That's pretty embarrassing for an organization to leak to the press like that. Any more important updates, I'll post, since I'm stuck at work until 6pm.

    5:18 PM

     
    Blogger mr. met said...

    Yes! I did rejoice. I little Grinch-esque smile in the face of the Mets behaving badly.

    Let us focus on the good! Sure, it does not take brains to do it so you don't get slammed in the media. You shouldn't do things because of the media, but you certainly can keep them in mind and do things a bit more tactfully.

    Either way, Manuel is just a puppet. Obie is truly going to call the shots from 1st base.

    Sidd...good stuff. You have to let young guys take their lumps. You simply need to or else you will only develop superstars.

    5:19 PM

     
    Anonymous tc said...

    Omar: this is my decision, mine only. I have a vested interest in Willie; he is a performance indicator of myself.

    Some FA signings / trades I've made haven't worked out; I take full responsibility.

    I think it's fair to say that some situations have been handled, pitching situations, I've been evaluating. These are made by manager / pitching coach. (Why Peterson had to go)

    5:22 PM

     
    Anonymous tc said...

    Willie on Sunday to Omar: I want to know sooner than later.

    Omar: Looked Willie in eye, told him he made a decision; two choices. 1- say he's manager for rest of year, 2- relieve him. Went with the second.

    When I made that decision, there were logistics involved. When I got here, we had a game at 8pm, I was making 3 coaching changes. I had to put everyone in place, get the AAA coaches, get everything together.

    Other thing is, I don't believe in firing a manager in uniform at the game in uniform. It will be done in confidence. The reason it was handled so quickly was out of respect for Willie; it's humiliating for Willie to be told by someone else after the game, and that's why I did it after the game so late.

    I could have done it this morning, but the truth is, for 48 hours for that word to be kept in, in my marketplace ... it doesn't happen.

    5:26 PM

     
    Anonymous tc said...

    Omar being a little stand-offish with the media, in my opinion. Saying that "3 or 4am is 11pm in West Coast."

    Made a comment like, "Stop wearing colored glasses. 3 or 4am for you guys is 11pm here. You're picking and choosing how you put this info out there."

    5:28 PM

     
    Anonymous department of self serving references said...

    Sidd, that's the crux, isn't it? I think some of it comes from the Yankees mentality - of only going with the sure bets - that Willie grew up in. But of course, management pulls the punches on something like that; you want someone to play someone, you'll get that done. As I said before, the team got a taste of some pretty intoxicating shit and suddenly decided on changing the plan.

    DG

    5:30 PM

     
    Anonymous tc said...

    Omar: at the end of last year, ownership gave me the ability to make the decision. I could have easily let him go. I chose not to. They supported me in my decision. I told Willie it's gonna be tough, but I'm going to support you.

    Wilpons supported me either way I went; that's my agreement with them. In '04, I came on board to have full authority; some decisions will be good, and some bad.

    Willie might have been resigned to it because I gave him a head's up, but he was also relieved because to have that cloud over him and the team wasn't good.

    I looked him straight in the eye and told him what was going on. It was a hard decision, but as GM, I get paid to make those decisions.

    I feel as if I didn't make the wrong decision. Moving Jerry over, I never had a situation over where I've changed managers. I'm not gonna tell you Jerry has all the answers or a magic wand.

    5:32 PM

     
    Anonymous tc said...

    Omar: I delayed this so long because no one wanted to make it work more than Omar Minaya. (3rd person nonsense now)

    Asked how far back he gave Willie a head's up on an imminent decision. Response (pissed off / huffing): This weekend. I thought about it in San Diego. There's a difference between thinking about it and actually getting it done. I thought about it last September; the thought process was there.

    I think they were pressing; I think they were disgusted this weekend with the questions about Willie. I think the players and Willie gave their best, but for whatever reason, it wasn't working.

    How many games have we lost that after the 5th or 6th inning, it's all of our faults.

    5:38 PM

     
    Anonymous Anonymous said...

    OK, so I lost count at 53 OKs... OK?

    5:44 PM

     
    Anonymous tc said...

    Omar: I always planned on keeping it in house, even if Jerry didn't want it (hinting that Oberk would have taken over had Manuel turned it down).

    "The famous word I'm learning as a GM is 'perception.' A lot of people perceive what they want."

    Asked about Manny Acta and the supposed love he gets at Shea. "If you want to make a story out of that, whatever, it's called perception. It's good stuff, good reading stuff.

    In Spanish, from what I can understand: Firing Willie was very tough. I made the decision late Sunday night, slept on it until Monday. I wanted to go with someone I knew well within the organization to take over. (Something to that extent)

    English again: Willie's remarks about race/SNY created more of a tension in the situation. I won't get into it more. They created more of an uncertainty in the equation.

    Asked when Willie found out he'd be going to West Coast: He found out after I was there, he never knew I was on the way. I wouldn't have given him a head's up, and don't think anyone else did. The implementation was did in a way so that my biggest fear -- a 3rd party -- would have told Willie before the game. I tried to protect that info. as much as possible. If we were on East Coast, 11pm, after the game, standard procedure, I would have let him go.

    Last question: I can understand people being upset. And I can tell you as I saw it developing I had a choice: do it now, or wait until he came home. It couldn't be done in New York. I thought about the diff. scenarios -- this morning, in Colorado on the off-day. But I had to tell him the moment the decision was made. At least in my heart. Once I knew it was time to go on this myself, it was time.

    5:44 PM

     
    Anonymous tc said...

    That's it for now. Mike & Mad Dog trying to get him on for later.

    Manuel is going on now. Tony Bernazard isn't around.

    If anything important is said, I'll let you guys know. Manuel / Omar taking pics, etc.

    Dog says Omar didn't handle the presser properly, avoided a lot of stuff.

    5:45 PM

     
    Anonymous department of self serving references said...

    John Sherman at the Post:

    But it is hard to believe Minaya really acted alone. Current and former Mets employees contacted today agreed in unanimity that this had Wilpon fingerprints all over it. One former employee said, "Do you think Omar really has the approval to fly cross-country, fire the manager and put out a statement at 3 a.m. without the intimate involvement of ownership?"

    So what's missing here is accountability from the people who keep hiring Steve Phillips and Jim Duquette, Art Howe and Willie Randolph. The constant is an ownership that keeps participating in inexplicable pratfalls, from trading Scott Kazmir to putting out a 3:14 a.m. press release announcing a managerial firing

    The worst thing you can call a player is a quitter. The worst thing you can call a sports management is amateurish. This was amateurish, and so, too, is much of how the front office runs, whether it is letting Minaya aide Tony Bernazard become a divisive force within the organization or for an offstage p.r. man named Stu Sucherman to influence how the Mets spin stories (almost always poorly).

    Randolph was the latest human sacrifice made to deflect attention away from the owners behind the curtains. Minaya should know he is being set up to be next.

    But nothing really changes until the Wilpons do.

    ***
    Mention of Kazmir is my self serving reference for the day!

    5:55 PM

     
    Anonymous Anonymous said...

    PLUS: Alomar no longer a third base coach.

    MINUS: Oberkfell wasting away at first as he spends the remainder of the season collecting batting gloves.

    5:58 PM

     
    Blogger mr. met said...

    Good stuff tc...

    Free Obie!!!!

    6:28 PM

     
    Anonymous Anonymous said...

    WOW..This is starting off well. Reyes was not happy but we see already what the relationship is going to be with Manuel's decision-making.

    Come on already

    10:13 PM

     
    Anonymous Anonymous said...

    Fuck Easley...Come on

    10:25 PM

     
    Anonymous Anonymous said...

    Why did I decide to watch the game today? Wishful f$#*n thinking.

    12:26 AM

     
    Anonymous Will said...

    Insanity: When one keeps doing the same thing expecting a different result.

    1:26 AM

     
    Anonymous brian b. said...

    i never really cared all that much for willie as a manager so i don't mind seeing him leave in the least. that said, i don't see his firing saving this season.

    10:51 AM

     
    Anonymous Anonymous said...

    from the post

    "Jerry knew the players as the bench coach and communicated with us," Beltran said. "I think he'll do a great job. He's communicates a lot and is always positive."

    11:42 AM

     
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