A blog dedicated to the New York Mets with some other baseball thrown in.

Wednesday, June 18, 2008

Randolph Redux

So um....I don't know if you have heard, but he Mets fired their manager. Is that still even being talked about?

I did not have time yesterday to fully dive into the depths of my brain to say everything I wanted to say about the issue. Luckily, I do not have to today as Rob Neyer had a chat and many of the things I wanted to say were illustrated perfectly by others which saves me oodles of time.

When a team wins, the manager generally gets a great deal of credit. More to the point, while the Mets' losing record may not be -- almost certainly is not -- strictly Randolph's fault, it's fairly obvious that something had to change. Willie Randolph may be a fine manager, but he does not seem to be the right manager for this team, right now. Maybe this team isn't good enough to win, no matter who's calling the shots in the dugout. But there's only one way to find out.

To continue down the road of mediocrity and not do anything is criminal. Changing Minaya mid-season would have ZERO outcome on the Mets in '08 and '09, however, the managerial change might have an effect. Something had to be done and this was the only option.

Those of you calling for Minaya's head may be justified, but it would be fruitless. It might serve the point to satiate your need for blood being spilled, but Willie's blood at least may lead to something good. Again, it may not, but as Rob said, there is only one way to find out.

Nick (NJ): How was this team supposed to win 90 games? They have Wright/Beltran/Reyes on paper with Alou (he's more fragile than paper)/Castillo (couldn't hit a ball through paper) and Delgado (umm...can't think of a paper analogy) who was done last year. This roster is horribly constructed - and don't even start on the bench. This is all on Omar.

Rob Neyer: (12:21 PM ET ) Here's what I can tell you, Nick ... Before the season, I looked at five "computer" projections -- that is, projections based on data rather than blue sky -- and all five showed the Mets with somewhere between 92 and 98 wins. One thing I've learned over the years is that if you try to outsmart the data you're usually going to be wrong.

Blame Minaya if you want, but the same roster everyone is ripping him for putting together was also the same roster that many other people thought was good as well. Simulations are not real life, which is obvious, but all you can do is put together the best team you can on paper and hope for the best. The Mets won 88 games in '07 and added Ryan Church and Johan Santana which is a significant upgrade that theoretically should have pushed them in the mid 90's for wins.

Enter reality, that is not happening and the manager is the easy target.

Mario (Queens, NYC): Willie's been on more championship teams than everyone in the Mets organization combined. Aside from the horrendous handling of his dismissal, it was simply the wrong move. There are no legit managerial alternatives, so it was clear that it was just a shot across the bow to shake things up and deflect responsibility. While I've been an Omar fan to this point, I'm now glad to see that he's now directly next in line for a canning if the team continues to falter. By the way, what are the stats on a team making the playoffs after a mid-season managerial change?

Rob Neyer: How is Jerry Manuel not legit? He's got experience, and a career winning record as a major league manager. Seems to me there are few *more* legitimate options than Manuel.

This is my most favorite-est argument in the universe. Willie is just a BORN winner with so much class, dignity, and grace. That mustache is so elegant and demands soooo much respect. I mean, really. Are there actually people out there that think anything Willie has done as a player or third base coach means he should be managing a big league ball club?

Since he has been the manager, he has proven to be inept (lack of strategic ability), stubborn (especially with young guys), childish (playing favorites and making many snide remarks), delusional (blaming SNY for being racist and calling Met fans out for being fair-weather fans), and too hands off at times ("There’s no certain point you get to where you’ve got to make any speeches. We know where we are").

Yes, Willie may have been a good big league ballplayer. Yes, he has a few championship rings. Yes, he is probably a good father and husband. Yes, he probably has a good soul and does not look at child porn. Yes, he is a local guy. However, none of that has anything to do with being a good manager and especially not for this Met team.

As for Jerry Manual, everyone knows he has more managerial experience than Willie does, right?

Terrence (NYC): The Mets should go against every inkling of their beliefs, tendencies, and beliefs- and hire Wally Backman. Pull a George Costanza, and just do the opposite. He's exactly what this team needs.

Rob Neyer: Perhaps. If the Mets don't make a strong second-half push, Manuel's probably gone. And maybe Backman is just what the millionaires need.

I really need Terrence to be the special assistant to the Grand Puba of the Mets.

Justin (Massena, NY): Well, if the Keith Hernandez for Manager '09 campaign is starting here, I'm throwing Ron Darling in for Pitching Coach. Those two, as broadcasters, have at least made watching the blunderous Mets games really entertaining this year.

Rob Neyer: Yes, but as a TV watcher I must vociferously protest. Don't free Mex and Ronnie!

Please...keep them in the booth.

Justin (Queens, NY): I believe your assesment was correct when you said "Randolph may be a fine manager, but he does not seem to be the right manager for this team, right now." The Mets need a disciplinarian, someone who won't be afraid to bench Reyes after he has a mental gaffe (then smiles) or tell Delgado he isn't playing verus lefties. I suggest Keith Hernandez manager for next season.

Rob Neyer: Specifically, I don't think Hernandez has any interest in managing. Generally, I think the Mets should hire someone -- if they don't keep Manuel -- who's actually managed before, even if only in the minors.

And really, this is the basis of every argument I had for not hiring Randolph in the first place. This team was on the precipice of what we all thought would be multiple playoff births and the first World Series win in twenty+ years and leading the charge was a guy who was a third base coach and bench coach for one season. Ummm.....am I missing something?

Anders (Montreal): I don't know who to finger point at - Minaya gave Luis Castillo a 4/25$ contract, but Randolph is the one batting him second. I'm so confused.

Rob Neyer: It's funny, I was completely on board with the anti-Castillo sentiment ... until I noticed this morning that he's got a .368 on-base percentage. I'm far from his biggest fan, but Castillo's not the problem. Not this year, anyway (the contract's still a joke).

That was the best one of the day....

* * *

  • So Manuel is a coach for thirty seconds and it begins with his shortstop coming up gimpy and Ramirez and Manuel run out to tend to him. Reyes wants to stay in and Manuel pulls him. Reyes throw a hissy fit, tosses his helmet, and goes into the dugout and subsequently right into the locker room. Then Jerry goes and down to give him a stern talking to and give him some 'choice words' (in Darling's words).

    Did I lose you? Ok...then let us continue....Easley can't get to ball in the hole that Reyes would have at least had a shot on, can't turn a double play that Reyes probably makes, and then makes a mental gaffe by not covering second on a pick off move. Basically, not having Reyes might have cost the Mets the game as the tone was set early.

    Yes...there is no mistaking this is the Mets. Just as dysfunctional as ever. Manuel's first day at the office was a rough one, but let us not go crazy about one game. Everyone relax...please. For all of our santity relax...THERE IS NOTHING TO GO CRAZY ABOUT. Things are fine and rosey...just relax! Anyone buying this?

  • Pat (Belfast, PA): Buster, obviously I'm biased and upset with Wang's injury, but isn't this once again a good time to examine why pitchers still hit in the NL? The "tradition" factor is silly, as is a need for the leagues being "different" in some way. All of the minors and college use the DH, if I'm not mistaken, so why isn't this addressed?

    Buster Olney: Pat: You and Hank Steinbrenner are thinking along the same lines. I wish the rules were uniform; I wish they played without a DH. But that is not happening, it will probably never happen in our lifetimes, so to worry about it is a little like fretting about the weather; it's just not going to change.

    Did I miss the point in time where pitchers became comprised of egg shells and pixie dust? Should quarterbacks start wearing flags in their pants so they no longer get tackled?

    Main Entry: ath·lete
    Pronunciation: \ˈath-ˌlēt, ÷ˈa-thə-ˌlēt\
    Function: noun
    Etymology: Middle English, from Latin athleta, from Greek athlētēs, from athlein to contend for a prize, from athlon prize, contest
    Date: 15th century

    : a person who is trained or skilled in exercises, sports, or games requiring physical strength, agility, or stamina

    I really love sports. However, I really hate the point in time when players stopped becoming athletes and starting becoming investments. Not just investments, but they were deemed extremely fragile investments.

  • Overall, Buster is a weenie that has nothing good to say about what the Mets did. Nieto went because Randolph went and he was his guy. On top of that, Obie needed to get in the mix and that was a good place to get him in there. Peterson might have worn out his welcome...he might not have. However, to be dismissive of the firing and saying it accomplishes nothing is absurd. If they had no desire to keep him around in '09, why pussy foot in '08?

    I get it. The Mets firing Willie when they did seems absurd. I agree they had plenty....and I mean PLENTY...of opportunities to do so. However, to call them back stabbing is just silly. He was under .500 69 games into the season and he just captained the largest collapse in the history of the galaxy and they are paying him MILLIONS of dollars through 2010. I think Willie will be able to remove the knife from his back and find a way to carry on.

  • Tim Marchman is awesome. I repeat....awesome.

  • Quotes, quotes, and more quotes.

  • The players don't seem all that upset, but I do not expect them to trash Manuel or the management. However, it seems they are especially blah about this firing.

  • I still love Professor Rick.

    "I wear this bracelet because I’m … very in tune with Eastern philosophy and universal law. [The bracelet rings signify] faith, compassion, equanimity and love. … The Eastern language writes in symbols, and the symbol for crisis they also use for opportunity. I’ve been given a great opportunity here, and as I walk out that door, I seek my next opportunity. I walk out in peace, and I wish everybody else here the best. … Hopefully, the Tuscany tile will do a lot better than a hardwood floor."

  • Some good words about Jerry.

    Labels: , ,


    Blogger Sidd Finch said...

    All that Willie stuff meant that we couldn't talk about HankenStein's comments about the DH and Pitchers running the bases.

    What an idiot he is.

    The NL needs to grow up and join the 21st century


    12:25 PM

    Blogger mr. met said...

    Priceless! Pitchers are incapable of doing anything but pitching! Those fragile beasts that they are.

    12:43 PM

    Anonymous tc said...

    That mustache is so elegant and demands soooo much respect. It's a shame the only finely groomed stache we will see from now on is Johan's goatee.

    Hank and Hal. Two fuckin idiots who happen to have a daddy that own a professional sports team in the media capital of the world.

    Rick Peterson definitely hitting the bong prior to leaving the hotel yesterday.

    Did anyone see Delgado's error last night where he booted the ball and it went 5 feet behind first base? I love how Johan had to run from the top of pitchers mound to behind the bag to retrieve the ball from that disaster.

    Reyes throwing helmet? Probably not great timing. That seemed to be a theme yesterday.

    12:46 PM

    Blogger Sidd Finch said...

    Hank and Hal. Two fuckin idiots who happen to have a daddy that own a professional sports team in the media capital of the world.

    Maybe that is a prerequisite to buying a franchise in NYC - you have to have idiot sons to run the franchise when they grow up. (Dolans, Steinbrenners, Wilpons)

    Re - Delgado's error: I'm in Denver, and don't get SNY here, so I didn't have the pleasure of seeing it. The only thing that will help Carlos at this point is praying to Jobu.

    Mike, I agree. The DH promotes specialization that prolongs careers of people who would otherwise have to retire, or would never have made it to the show. This goes for pitchers and hitters. If they had the DH in the 1920's, Babe Herman might be in the Hall of Fame.

    12:55 PM

    Blogger mr. met said...

    I wish my dad owned a baseball team. Why must I get nothing!!!

    Johan = Great fielder. He did some other amazing things last night too.

    Delgado needs to go. Now. I don't care if he is getting better. These team needs another jolt and he needs to be gone.

    Not good timing at all...that is certainly an understatement. Even if you are mad, be smart man. Just fucking unreal.

    12:56 PM

    Blogger mr. met said...

    I'm not saying abolish the DH, but certainly don't make dumb comments about it like Hal did.

    12:57 PM

    Anonymous tc said...

    Sidd, MLB.tv! Then you can witness the awe-inspiring spectacle of Delgado's fielding prowess at 1st. Then again, probably a good call saving yourself the 90$.

    12:58 PM

    Blogger Sidd Finch said...

    tc, the problem with mlb.tv is that you have to have a land line to prove that you are where you are. those bastards.

    I wish my dad owned a baseball team. Why must I get nothing!!!


    1:13 PM

    Anonymous Danny said...

    I apologize to anybody that posts here that might be a pitcher, but...

    99% of pitchers are weird dudes. I always equate them to the wide receivers of the NFL.

    Something about the isolation of their jobs makes them weird.

    Jerry Manuel spoke jive in his first interview. Count me a fan!

    1:19 PM

    Blogger mr. met said...

    Something about the isolation of their jobs makes them weird.


    Jive talking is double awesome jive turkies!

    1:42 PM

    Blogger Anthony said...

    Sidd, Extra Innings package?

    Releasing Jacket for that dude who looks like he's 98 years old will come to haunt this team. Not that they aren't haunted by the other 10,378 stupid moves over the past forty plus years. But still...I will miss the Professor.

    And who the hell is that 3rd base coach? Outside of Obie, they are quite the goofy looking coached team now. What's with all the glasses? Have these men ever heard of laser surgery?

    I heard Mussina say that it's hard for American League pitchers to bat and run the bases because they only do it a few times a year. He actually said that "it's hard for them to run the bases because they are used to just running straight and not having to make turns and pivots as they run". I am not kidding. This is coming from a pro "athlete" who's being paid like 18 mil this year. Why can I run and pivot and turn without breaking my foot for my entire lifetime but these pro pitchers are so fragile that they may break something? I don't get it at all.

    Reyes...wow. That kid is a trip.

    3:04 PM

    Anonymous Anonymous said...

    people really got fired up yesterday. cerrone is sentimental!

    i'm just glad.

    on to the dh discussion -- it's bad enough that the american league adopted the dh, now they want to preach to the national league... WTF! the dh really chafes my taint. a good friend of mine gave his senior speech in high school about banning the dh -- it was glorious. our local douchebag columnist is not glorious; check it out: http://hamptonroads.com/2008/06/hank-steinbrenners-rage-over-nls-holdout-dh-money


    3:19 PM

    Blogger Sidd Finch said...

    I'm only in Denver so I can see the Mets play here. What was I thinking? I guess I can buy the games one at a time, since I'll only be out here for a couple of days.

    I might go see the Rockies play the tribe tonight, if I can break free from work.

    3:20 PM

    Blogger mr. met said...

    Mussina is a douche. That quote is priceless. Since when did running turn into a dangerous activity.

    Why did people get fired up? Willie's face makes me feel sick. SICK!

    Jake...chafe your taint? That is a money quote.

    Watching a game in CO is very nice.

    3:23 PM

    Anonymous SackDance said...

    What's most disturbing is how the Mets are fundamentally flawed at the top. Omar Minaya biggest claim to fame was scouting Sammy Sosa who was really marginal until anabolic steroids came along. Omar ran the Expos/Nats into the ground with the help of MLB.

    The team is OLD and doesn't play with passion. They won't turn things around and they don't have a farm system that will reconstruct this aging team.

    4:07 PM

    Blogger mr. met said...

    And yet they are caught up with trying to win this year because of Johan, Wright, Reyes, and Beltran...

    What a pickle! Honestly though, they have no farm and no tradeable commoditites. The only choice is to try and improve without causing any further harm to the farm and protect the draft picks.

    'Tis no easy task...

    4:16 PM

    Anonymous Anonymous said...

    mike francesca is calling for delgados release.... where do i sign that petition??

    5:19 PM

    Anonymous Anonymous said...

    Holy fucking shit, you are so on the mark about this whole new DH debate that has grown legs over the past few days thanks to that douchebag Skank Steinbrenner.

    First of all: who the fuck is Hank Steinbrenner?!? Never even knew papa had a son named Hank until just a couple years ago. All of a sudden ya can't shut the guy up! He's like that fresh piece of dog shit you step on just as your about to get into the car. You try so hard to wipe it clean and remove the stench, but it just never goes away. Same with George Lite. Until he comes down with a serious case of emphysema, we're just gonna have to get used to the fact that lil Hanky will be tossing out stupid, uninformed comments for years to come.

    Seriously, when the hell did these so-called athletes turn into faberge eggs? If that mother fucker Selig even dares to entertain the though of bringing the DH into the NL, I will stop watching this sport.

    This guy wants to please everyone so badly, that he pisses off every other group in the process. Hear how he has officially canceled the Hall of Fame game after this year? Excuse? Too difficult to schedule it into the season!

    Seriously?!? How bout you tell the truth and say that the multi-million dollar crybabies have no interest in playing that exhibition game in the middle of the season! A tradition for around 60 years wiped away in one swipe by the Bud-meister.

    Nice job dick lick. Next tradition to go? Pitchers ACTUALLY hitting? Well fuck that. MLB will have one less fan buying tickets and merchandise if that ever happens.

    5:29 PM

    Anonymous tc said...

    I was trying to single out a favorite phrase out of the rant above, but all are terrific.

    Fine job, anon, be sure to post shit like this more often: "Until he comes down with a serious case of emphysema, we're just gonna have to get used to the fact that lil Hanky will be tossing out stupid, uninformed comments for years to come."

    Hank's douchebaggery is something I will enjoy lambasting for years to come, even after Daddy's enshrined a'la Stalin in a glass case in monument park after his passing.

    5:40 PM

    Anonymous Danny said...


    1:37 AM

    Anonymous department of self serving references said...

    Who was Randolph? The name sounds vaguely familiar...

    11:29 AM

    Anonymous department of self serving references said...

    That doctored photo from the Post of Jerry Manuel holding an open knife behind Willie's back is fucking heinous!

    As for his bemoaning his enemies, blame still sits on his shoulders. Klapisch wrote is perfectly yesterday: Willie lost the players.

    12:07 PM

    Blogger Toasty Joe said...

    Mike! Where ya been! Haven't seen you around Toasted Joe's lately. Your analysis is spot-on - Omar needs to be reevaluated at the END of the season, not in the middle. Willie, however, had to go.

    3:43 PM

    Anonymous I Heart Wilmer Flores said...

    t's clear that Bernazard and Manuel have a solid relationship - far better than Bernazard's relationship with Randolph, who detested the Mets' VP in part because of his clubhouse presence. Without exaggeration, Barack Obama's relationship with Hillary Clinton during their campaigns for the Democratic nomination may have been considered civil compared with the frostiness between Bernazard and Randolph over the past three-plus seasons.

    It's also clear, according to team insiders, that Manuel viewed Randolph as stubborn and overmatched. Randolph would frequently ignore Manuel's advice as bench coach, even though Manuel had managed the White Sox to a 500-471 record from 1998-2003 and Randolph was a first-time skipper.

    Yet while Manuel has a tough behind-the-scenes approach with his players - in Chicago he handled the volatile Frank Thomas and Albert Belle - he also is widely considered among the most thoughtful and most guileless characters in baseball, and certainly in the Mets' organization. That raises the issue of whether Randolph's suspicion of Manuel was partly paranoia, even if there were people out to get Randolph, and even if Manuel did offer candid opinions about what had been transpiring with the team to Bernazard.

    Randolph frequently used to proclaim how comfortable he was in his own skin. But two games into Manuel's tenure as manager, the difference between the two men is abundantly clear: Manuel actually is secure in his skin, even with an interim tag on the position that will pay Randolph another $3.4 million through 2009. Manuel deftly dealt with his first challenge, when Jose Reyes showed insubordination by pitching a fit while leaving Tuesday's game in Anaheim as a precaution when his left hamstring tightened.

    From Daily News


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